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General discussionARE all these games using THE SAME ALGORITHM? For DECADES!!??(64 posts)(64 posts)
(64 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 22, 2017
(clones? take one father and any number of different women and you ll get a few thousands of genetic collisions with almost the same face; yeah, it may be the clones, one of it got control of the original code and development stopped)

Is perchance the SK idea of shards a metaphor for computer electronic component manufacturing companies? Why do I feel like it when asking for Civilization in an open ending world?
Posted March 22, 2017
I suck at all these games.

The OP might be on to something.
Posted March 22, 2017
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macuahuitlgog: So every Civ game after the first doesn't let you stack units on a square?
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mystikmind2000: I think if the civilization series had the 12 unit limit like call to power from the start, then the stacks of doom would never have become an issue and then no one would have asked for the ridiculous 2 unit tile limit shit we got with civ5
Stacks of doom are realistic though. https://youtu.be/HdNn5TZu6R8?t=1m32s Why the hate?

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mystikmind2000: Really, Australia is a horrible place to build a civilization in that world map, but with a bit of tweaking of the random seed, i was able to make it work. Anyway, by the time i was ready to invade America, oh boy, they hit my fleet with so many rockets you would not believe, and ships and planes.... i had to have a huge Aegis fleet with battleships in a big square formation in real siege mode, man, that was such a fight you would not believe.... sigh, eventually i decided to win with the spaceship, lol
They should make this into a movie.
Post edited March 22, 2017 by macuahuitlgog
Posted March 22, 2017
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tinyE: I suck at all these games.
Don't worry. Ghandi makes everyone his bitch. ;)
Posted March 22, 2017
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tinyE: I suck at all these games.
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mistermumbles: Don't worry. Ghandi makes everyone his bitch. ;)
This is true.
Posted March 23, 2017
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mystikmind2000: I think if the civilization series had the 12 unit limit like call to power from the start, then the stacks of doom would never have become an issue and then no one would have asked for the ridiculous 2 unit tile limit shit we got with civ5
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macuahuitlgog: Stacks of doom are realistic though. https://youtu.be/HdNn5TZu6R8?t=1m32s Why the hate?

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mystikmind2000: Really, Australia is a horrible place to build a civilization in that world map, but with a bit of tweaking of the random seed, i was able to make it work. Anyway, by the time i was ready to invade America, oh boy, they hit my fleet with so many rockets you would not believe, and ships and planes.... i had to have a huge Aegis fleet with battleships in a big square formation in real siege mode, man, that was such a fight you would not believe.... sigh, eventually i decided to win with the spaceship, lol
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macuahuitlgog: They should make this into a movie.
Why the hate?

because civ5 is a really good game, and i gave it a damn good play through, but the 2 unit tile limit just gnawed away at me until my head started turning on an angle and my eye started to twitch.... its twitching now even when i think about it.... when you have your sanity driven into the ground by just 1 absurd game feature in an otherwise brilliant game, you will know hate.

Movie? not a bad idea! lol.... although the caption "the Aussies are coming, the Aussies are coming" dousnt quite sound rite?? hehehehe
Posted March 23, 2017
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macuahuitlgog: Stacks of doom are realistic though. https://youtu.be/HdNn5TZu6R8?t=1m32s Why the hate?

They should make this into a movie.
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mystikmind2000: Why the hate?

because civ5 is a really good game, and i gave it a damn good play through, but the 2 unit tile limit just gnawed away at me until my head started turning on an angle and my eye started to twitch.... its twitching now even when i think about it.... when you have your sanity driven into the ground by just 1 absurd game feature in an otherwise brilliant game, you will know hate.

Movie? not a bad idea! lol.... although the caption "the Aussies are coming, the Aussies are coming" dousnt quite sound rite?? hehehehe
No, I mean why is their hatred towards stacks of doom(12+ units on a tile)? It doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't be able to enjoy Civ 5 with the 2 unit tile limit because it's just so unrealistic it would piss me off nonstop. It would be like Chivalry: Medieval Warfare with assault rifles or Rome Total War with Orcs and Elves.
Post edited March 23, 2017 by macuahuitlgog
Posted March 23, 2017
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mystikmind2000: Why the hate?

because civ5 is a really good game, and i gave it a damn good play through, but the 2 unit tile limit just gnawed away at me until my head started turning on an angle and my eye started to twitch.... its twitching now even when i think about it.... when you have your sanity driven into the ground by just 1 absurd game feature in an otherwise brilliant game, you will know hate.

Movie? not a bad idea! lol.... although the caption "the Aussies are coming, the Aussies are coming" dousnt quite sound rite?? hehehehe
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macuahuitlgog: No, I mean why is their hatred towards stacks of doom(12+ units on a tile)? It doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't be able to enjoy Civ 5 with the 2 unit tile limit because it's just so unrealistic it would piss me off nonstop.
I started at Civ II and when Civ III came out, I played it, loved it, and never looked back. And then when Civ IV came out, I tried it, loved it and never looked back. So you can't say I'm one of those "no version is ever as good as the first version you play" guys. But I tried Civ 5 several times. I mean literally dozens. And for some reason I could never explain it just never grabbed me like the others. And I think maybe this is one of the reasons. It's just, I dunno, game breaking or immersion breaking or something, to have the game so...... reduced (for lack of a better explanation) because of this silly limit. One of the fun things about Civ is building up an incredible army, and have epic battles between stacks of units.

I'm not sure if that's the only reason (or even the main reason) Civ 5 hasn't stuck with me (yet, I'm still trying it every now and then) but reading your comments makes me think it probably is. There's just something wrong with the limit. I don't like it.

Well, that and the fact that Civ IV, with the Beyond The Sword expansion, is probably as close to perfect a game as any Civ type game I've played. IV is teh awesome!
Post edited March 23, 2017 by OldFatGuy
Posted March 23, 2017
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mystikmind2000: Why the hate?

because civ5 is a really good game, and i gave it a damn good play through, but the 2 unit tile limit just gnawed away at me until my head started turning on an angle and my eye started to twitch.... its twitching now even when i think about it.... when you have your sanity driven into the ground by just 1 absurd game feature in an otherwise brilliant game, you will know hate.

Movie? not a bad idea! lol.... although the caption "the Aussies are coming, the Aussies are coming" dousnt quite sound rite?? hehehehe
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macuahuitlgog: No, I mean why is their hatred towards stacks of doom(12+ units on a tile)? It doesn't make sense to me. I wouldn't be able to enjoy Civ 5 with the 2 unit tile limit because it's just so unrealistic it would piss me off nonstop. It would be like Chivalry: Medieval Warfare with assault rifles or Rome Total War with Orcs and Elves.
Well personally i never had an issue with stacks of doom. But i only played the AI, never multiplayer.

If you go back to such a game as Alpha Centauri, you will be severely punished for creating a stack of doom because damaging one unit damages all the units underneath. But civ games reward you for a stack of doom by cycling your damaged units out of harms way. So they could have solved the stack of doom problem by remembering how Alpha Centauri did it, but no, lets do a 2 unit tile limit instead.
Posted March 23, 2017
Funny thing is that a thread whose topic is "all civ games are alike" ends up in complains about things that have been changed in civ 5 ^^ (Although I thought that civ 4 also had the stack limit? Not sure, since I'm more into SF and Fantasy 4X)

And I actually like the no-stack policy. It actually pushes me to do frontlines and to send several axis of invasions instead of just one big push with a stack (or a group of stacks). But I guess it's up to personal tastes.

As for "realism" in Civ, we're talking about the game where stone age warriors with silex-tipped javelins can destroy the battleship and the planes that are bombing them (at least in civ 1-2), where crossing the globe with space-age ships/planes can take several decades, and where a bombing run is at least 2 years long, right? I think the game works better if we assume an healthy dose of abstraction ^^

Those primitives didn't shoot the planes in flight, but avoided the bombing and made a daring raid on the local forward airbase or on the anchored fleet. Those travel times and long flight times are about getting big armies in position with all their logistics, advanced bases, supply lines, or to set up a viable commerce/spying network in the regions crossed (no idea why diplomats are as slow as the others, though. To simulate the fact that setting Long goodwill tour?) This is not a 2 year bombing run, but a 2 year campaign of carpet bombing with multiple missions. One "unit" on the map actually represents a whole corps that will handle a fair area of the battlefront and mixing all the arms you sent to this front (and not just one homogenous infantry regiment)...
Post edited March 23, 2017 by Kardwill
Posted March 23, 2017
I prefer playing Civ with the time period fixed and you can't go beyond that, otherwise the game just flies by too fast and before you know it everyone is at Information age.
Posted March 23, 2017
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OldFatGuy: ...
Civ IV is also my favorite of the lot, but Civ V has managed to come close. My two gripes with it are the overly extensive religious element, which I just don't find fun at all, and some aspects of the one unit per tile which I find immersion breaking. Specifically the way how towards the end entire continents are swimming in units, with pretty much every single tile occupied by some military unit, and also how ranged units like longbowmen can shoot 2 or 3 tiles away, which should translate to hundreds of kilometers in reality.

But, and this is a big but, those problems essentially disappear in the scenarios from what I can remember. The normal game is fun, but the scenarios I find way more immersive because there you have a much more believable scale and timeframe. One turn is, say, a week as opposed to 10 years, and landmasses can be given far more detail. For example in a world map type game Italy is just a few tiles in size, but in an ancient Rome/Greece scenario it's massive and feels much more like an actual empire. And the same goes for Civ IV as well. I neglected the scenarios for a long time thinking they can't be as much fun as the normal game, only to find out later that they are as much if not more fun!
Posted March 23, 2017
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Kardwill: Funny thing is that a thread whose topic is "all civ games are alike" ends up in complains about things that have been changed in civ 5 ^^ (Although I thought that civ 4 also had the stack limit? Not sure, since I'm more into SF and Fantasy 4X)

And I actually like the no-stack policy. It actually pushes me to do frontlines and to send several axis of invasions instead of just one big push with a stack (or a group of stacks). But I guess it's up to personal tastes.

As for "realism" in Civ, we're talking about the game where stone age warriors with silex-tipped javelins can destroy the battleship and the planes that are bombing them (at least in civ 1-2), where crossing the globe with space-age ships/planes can take several decades, and where a bombing run is at least 2 years long, right? I think the game works better if we assume an healthy dose of abstraction ^^

Those primitives didn't shoot the planes in flight, but avoided the bombing and made a daring raid on the local forward airbase or on the anchored fleet. Those travel times and long flight times are about getting big armies in position with all their logistics, advanced bases, supply lines, or to set up a viable commerce/spying network in the regions crossed (no idea why diplomats are as slow as the others, though. To simulate the fact that setting Long goodwill tour?) This is not a 2 year bombing run, but a 2 year campaign of carpet bombing with multiple missions. One "unit" on the map actually represents a whole corps that will handle a fair area of the battlefront and mixing all the arms you sent to this front (and not just one homogenous infantry regiment)...
Civ games don't comprehend quite a few basic principles of combat. And most are not because of the limitations of being a game, but the limitations of not being bothered to do it!

You could for example, easily code in that a tank is immune to small arms fire, swords and spears, it would not at all be hard to do, but they did not bother, why? Who the hell knows?

Edit: well ok they may say you should not be able to wipe out an enemy who has no anti tank.... but guess what happens to any armed forces in real life that don't have anti tank? Yea, no game balance Gods will save them.

Hmmm actually no.... in WW2 tanks did frequently take casualties fighting forces with no anti tank.... they had mechanical break downs!
Post edited March 23, 2017 by mystikmind2000
Posted March 24, 2017
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mystikmind2000: You could for example, easily code in that a tank is immune to small arms fire, swords and spears, it would not at all be hard to do, but they did not bother, why? Who the hell knows?
Even without antitank weapons, they may have used makeshift explosives, they may have destroyed a bridge or dug traps, they may have done a nocturnal raid on the tank depot, some of the tanks may have gone rogue after years of slaughters... Hell, they may have knifed the tank crews while they were visiting the local brothel. It LOOKS like a frontal battle when you move the unit and hear the fight noise, but it does not have to be one.
Abstraction of a fuckton of stuff that may happen during the 1-5 years of warfare that is 1 turn. (But the tanks still have a very good chance of winning in CIV, so those cases will be the outliers, which is okay)

A game with Civ's planetary scale can't really go into the realistic detail. :)
Post edited March 24, 2017 by Kardwill
Posted March 24, 2017
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mystikmind2000: You could for example, easily code in that a tank is immune to small arms fire, swords and spears, it would not at all be hard to do, but they did not bother, why? Who the hell knows?
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Kardwill: Even without antitank weapons, they may have used makeshift explosives, they may have destroyed a bridge or dug traps, they may have done a nocturnal raid on the tank depot, some of the tanks may have gone rogue after years of slaughters... Hell, they may have knifed the tank crews while they were visiting the local brothel. It LOOKS like a frontal battle when you move the unit and hear the fight noise, but it does not have to be one.
Abstraction of a fuckton of stuff that may happen during the 1-5 years of warfare that is 1 turn. (But the tanks still have a very good chance of winning in CIV, so those cases will be the outliers, which is okay)

A game with Civ's planetary scale can't really go into the realistic detail. :)
Well i would not be too bothered with modern infantry being able to do some damage to a tank, but in real life, the reality is that infantry without anti tank simply get out of the way of the tank. That is also not properly represented in the game since only some fast units can evade.

Or if your french infantry, you get out of the way of the tank and then go and find someone to surrender too!! lol
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionARE all these games using THE SAME ALGORITHM? For DECADES!!??(64 posts)(64 posts)
(64 posts)