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adaliabooks: Surely the only way that is possible is with heavy DRM?

So is it worth being able to sell the games on if you don't even really own them in the first place?

And how does reselling work? I assume the devs are going to get a cut, otherwise they wouldn't agree to it, but will you have to sell at set prices or will you be able to choose your own price? Do you get the lions share of the money or do the devs?

The website FAQ doesn't give an awful lot of info on how it works and mostly seems focused on their block chain mining nonsense...
That would be my guess. I would imagine the reselling isn't actual reselling with the market dictating prices, but rather the option to give up one's access to a game for X% of the purchase price.
From the looks of things, Robotcache will have a unique DRM system.

Basically, instead of Robotcache holding the DRM notes of who owns what, the DRM will be passed along in a blockchain and held by wallets.This blockchain is actually a network distributed across various computers owned by Robotcache users. The users who contribute computing power to this are given Robotcache currency (Iron) as compensation for their electricity and computer resources (they call it Mining).

Everyone on Robotcahce has a wallet to hold their games and Iron. Wallets hold Iron and game ownership tokens. The DRM itself is a token held in a personal Robotcahce wallet that says "I own this game". When a game is sold the token is sent to someone else's wallet. Robotcahce likely creates new tokens for new game sales.

If you don't have the token in your wallet saying "I own this game" you do not have access to that game. Robotcache can't really revoke anything as wallets don't work that way. Games must be sent by the wallet owner or created and sent by robotcache. If robotcache dies the tokens will live and the tokens and blockchain should be still live as long as people are online to keep the blockchain network Robotcache uses alive. This means games can be sold or traded forever... in theory anyway.

It's interesting, though I know those wallets are going to be hot targets. If an exploit in the wallet is found, games and Iron can be stolen. The thief will have to know your wallet address and then will need to access your wallet to steal your stuff, though. If robotcache has a database of addresses on a server this will also be a target as it tells the thief where to find you. If wallets are hosted on Robotcache's server and not your personal computer, this makes an even bigger target. If the wallet is on your computer you can lose everything if your data is lost (ie: dead computer) and you forgot to back things up.

All in all an interesting alternative DRM. I wonder how well it will work?
Post edited December 11, 2018 by kitsuneae
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Johnathanamz: I have never sold my physical boxed versions of the PC versions of video games that I have purchased for twenty years either, but this is very pro-customer friendly for PC gamers that want to do that.
DRM is never "pro-customer-friendly".
Blockchain's definitely the way I'd expect ownership to be handled if you want to allow resale. Main ledgers still with Robotcache at least.

Makes sense to combine cryptomining and gamers too I guess
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/annoyed_by_so_many_digital_distribution_retailer_stores_popping_up_on_pc_selling_video_games/page1

Irony?

-----

And just because.: from the FAQ:
Will I be able to sell my Steam games?

2 months ago

You will be unable to sell your Steam games on the Robot Cache platform.
Frankly, I can't exactly bring myself to care about yet another platform, but i'll give it a pat on the head for at least having a stupid gimmick.
So. The games require always-online DRM and you have to install a client app that may contribute your processor power to crypto-currency mining? ... No, thank you!
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adaliabooks: Surely the only way that is possible is with heavy DRM? ...
This was also my first thought, but then I thought, hey wait, if DRM free works because of trust, then reselling might also work because of trust. With GOG games it was never easier to pirate them because of DRM free, but still people queue to buy them instead and part with their precious money. With GOG games it would also be never easier to keep them when reselling the game because of DRM free, but still people might actually delete them from their disc.

However, that's probably not what robotcache is doing. They are probably heavily using DRM.
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toxicTom: ... How's that supposed to work? How do they want to prevent you keeping on using a game you sold?
How is DRM free supposed to work at all? How does GOG prevent anyone from pirating (or copying it from a friend) a game instead of buying it?
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adaliabooks: ...And as others have said, I can count the number of games I've sold on when done on one hand... so while it's interesting it's not really a draw for me either.
I could imagine that the second hand market price might be an indicator of popularity/quality of a game. E.g. if the second hand market price drops quickly after release it's probably crap. This assumes that you can set the reselling price freely.

On the other hand, if a game is not sold for some reasons (legal limbo, ...), the second hand market could still be a legal source to get these games.

Finally, selling to relatives might be the only legal way to actually pass digital possessions on in a legally clean way.

However, I agree. All that doesn't seem to be a big thing currently.

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Lifthrasil: ... processor power to crypto-currency mining ...
Btw. in almost all cases this is a loss of money because the increased power bill is higher than the value of the mined crypto-currency.
Post edited December 12, 2018 by Trilarion
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Lifthrasil: ... processor power to crypto-currency mining ...
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Trilarion: Btw. in almost all cases this is a loss of money because the increased power bill is higher than the value of the mined crypto-currency.
Yes. Which is why I suspect most semi-professional crypto-miners to steal processor power wherever they can and the combination of a 'always online' client plus a crypto-mining company behind it looks very suspect!
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Trilarion: Btw. in almost all cases this is a loss of money because the increased power bill is higher than the value of the mined crypto-currency.
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Lifthrasil: Yes. Which is why I suspect most semi-professional crypto-miners to steal processor power wherever they can and the combination of a 'always online' client plus a crypto-mining company behind it looks very suspect!
So they probably want to use the game selling shop as a cover for installing crypto-mining software on gamers computers to make money. How ingenious! Saves me time to think more about them.
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Trilarion: So they probably want to use the game selling shop as a cover for installing crypto-mining software on gamers computers to make money. How ingenious! Saves me time to think more about them.
It should be noted that notably crappy hardware company Razer is doing a similar idea.
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Trilarion: So they probably want to use the game selling shop as a cover for installing crypto-mining software on gamers computers to make money. How ingenious! Saves me time to think more about them.
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Darvond: It should be noted that notably crappy hardware company Razer is doing a similar idea.
Can you explain, please? I don't like Razer either, but I like to be informed on hardware manufacturers.
pretty much every pc game I own I am content with. for other people, like compulsive buyers or someone doesn't like the game anymore but is too late for a refund(games exist that can take weeks of playing to find this out). sounds good but if executed poorly it could be a disaster.
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ariaspi: Can you explain, please? I don't like Razer either, but I like to be informed on hardware manufacturers.
Sure thing. Here we are.
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ariaspi: Can you explain, please? I don't like Razer either, but I like to be informed on hardware manufacturers.
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Darvond: Sure thing. Here we are.
Thank you. Oh well, at least they're open about it. I was thinking that is something hidden in their software, without the user knowing about it.