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General discussionValve facing another Anti-trust Lawsuit, this time from Original Creator of Humble Bundle(50 posts)(50 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted May 02, 2021
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dudalb: Thuing about anit turst suits is have to prove restraint of trade, which is hard to prove in this case becuase anybody can set up a gaming store, and alll Valve has to do is point to all the onling game stores out there.
Not saying it's right,but that is the way the law works.
Not really.

The mere existence of other stores or being able to set one up does not show that Steam isn't a 'monopoly' and, consequentially, that means there's no restraint of trade.

In the narrow sense of the term Steam is not a monopoly- but for illustration, neither was Standard Oil- but relevant laws do not actually use the narrow sense. And if we were going narrow sense then Steam would not be a Monopoly anyway, it would be a Monopsony (to whit, control of the marketplace in which things are sold rather than control of a product). In reality, you don't have to be a literal Monopoly to be done for monopolistic practices.

Under those circumstances Steam key resellers and those dependent on them for the majority of their money would then be Captive Supply, ie while nominally independent are in fact wholly dependent on Steam not cutting off their supply of keys and thus unable to actually compete and Steam's dominance of the market and leveraging of it to prevent competition by for example offering disproportionately good terms to big players (eg EA having a lot lower cut taken than a game from Joe Bloggs Software Inc) becomes both a Barrier to Entry ('you really want to miss out on 80% of the market??? While raising your own costs???') and susceptible to Anti Trust civil proceedings ('beneficial offers to big suppliers to join the Trust').

Not saying that it's a winning approach, in a lawsuit, but it's nowhere near as cut and dried as others are making out.

There is also the issue of Bundling as a loss leader/ trojan horse for market dominance, but that is a bit separate and I can't be bothered with it
Posted May 02, 2021
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Zrevnur: In https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2021/04/management-board-report-on-the-activities-of-the-cd-projekt-group-and-cdc-projekt-sa-in-2020.pdf
look at table on page 102 and compare with page 78 chart: Clearly Cyberpunk is included on page 102 under sales for GOG. So I would expect it to be included on page 108 too and I dont think the 6% there are compatible with 102 otherwise.

(Also see my estimate here - feel free to make a better one or fiddle with the numbers: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/boycotting_gog_2021/post2161 )
Thank you for the correction, edited comment to adjust for this big difference. I estimate their revenue in 2020 without CP2077 is ~203,000 thousand PLN, which is about a 25% increase in revenue compared to last year and 59% of their total revenue. If 141,000 thousand PLN was made through CP2077 and each copy of the game costs on average 250 PLN / 55 EUR, then my math is ~564,000 copies of CP2077 sold through GOG.

Finances are not as optimistic as I had hoped as a customer concerned about longevity, but at least it's nice to know they have a history of staying in the black and digital distribution are still trending upwards so that CDPG isn't going to get rid of them anytime soon.
Post edited May 02, 2021 by Canuck_Cat
Posted May 02, 2021
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paladin181: I dislike Steam, but isn't our presence on this forum in addition to other services such as EGS proof that other platforms can flourish?
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Starmaker: I'd hate to come off as defending these fuckers, but it's not what they're saying. Their argument is twofold:

One, that they should be able to undercut Steam and externalize their costs onto Steam while pocketing all income, but Steam illegally refuses to comply.

Two, that because they can't do the above, they want to not release on Steam at all but have comparable sales figures. But Steam has illegally conspired to provide a superior product preferred by a vast majority of gamers, so they can't do this either.

To put it in practical terms, they want to have either
- a Steam key reseller which doesn't have to price match
- their own massively market dominant store, to release exclusives.

GOG meets neither of these criteria. GOG obviously doesn't sell Steam keys, is even more picky about potentially unprofitable releases, and cannot sustain an exclusive release even of CDP games.

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paladin181: Comparing Steam to Apple is ridiculous. Apple is literally the only game in town on their devices unless you hack around the walled garden. Microsoft was the next closest thing when they tried to introduce the UWP. Fortunately, the backlash was strong and swift to curtail that.
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Starmaker: Yeah, even in a thoroughly absurd lolsuit that argument stood out by how intellectually dishonest it was.
Their argument is "Steam is too established for us to make all the money." I get that. I was more pointing out the flaws in the argument they have to appear to make for a lawsuit to hold any weight whatsoever. These shit weasels have a long row to hoe to even come close to making a case that will survive a motion to dismiss.
Posted May 02, 2021
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Why do you guys care, you're not going to change anything... Lol your all so cute and into it
Posted May 02, 2021
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Zrevnur: In https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2021/04/management-board-report-on-the-activities-of-the-cd-projekt-group-and-cdc-projekt-sa-in-2020.pdf
look at table on page 102 and compare with page 78 chart: Clearly Cyberpunk is included on page 102 under sales for GOG. So I would expect it to be included on page 108 too and I dont think the 6% there are compatible with 102 otherwise.

(Also see my estimate here - feel free to make a better one or fiddle with the numbers: https://www.gog.com/forum/general/boycotting_gog_2021/post2161 )
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Canuck_Cat: Thank you for the correction, edited comment to adjust for this big difference. I estimate their revenue in 2020 without CP2077 is ~203,000 thousand PLN, which is about a 25% increase in revenue compared to last year and 59% of their total revenue. If 141,000 thousand PLN was made through CP2077 and each copy of the game costs on average 250 PLN / 55 EUR, then my math is ~564,000 copies of CP2077 sold through GOG.
Explanation about how CP2077 sales on GOG are handled: see page 71 in https://www.cdprojekt.com/en/wp-content/uploads-en/2021/04/separate-financial-statement-of-cd-projekt-sa-for-2020.pdf
This also gives numbers which are sort of consistent with your 141M - I get ~143M if assuming 70% share. But I think this is for all CDPR games not just CP2077.
(And I dont know why the receivables from GOG are ~62M.)

Also: For the price-per-unit estimate VAT may have to be excluded for the numbers on 102 - dont know though.

Also: Far as I know GOG didnt finish refunding refund requests from 2020 in 2020 so those outstanding refund requests may have to be subtracted too.
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Community
General discussionValve facing another Anti-trust Lawsuit, this time from Original Creator of Humble Bundle(50 posts)(50 posts)
(50 posts)