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Gundato: Do you have a link to the results of this questionnaire? This is the first I am hearing of this and I am actually very interested.
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Navagon: I was joking. The point is that EA's reaction to the dip in profits was to change their DRM and target second hand sales instead. If EA thinks that activation limits had something to do with it then that's evidence enough.

Ah. Sarcasm doesn't work well on the internet :p
But it is somewhat foolish to instantly assume it was the DRM. There are many possible explanations:
Their two major titles that fiscal year were Spore and Mass Effect PC, right? I think MoH: Airborne might have come out as well, but that series has been overshadowed by CoD since Infinity Ward was founded. Quite possible that Spore didn't get the love they wanted (not because of DRM, but because it was a casual game) and MEPC was a re-release, so many people had already played it.
Plus, their new DRM and focus on second-hand sales actually says a lot. Neither of those three games were huge multiplayer affairs, aside from Spore. So second-hand sales could easily have cut into that. So EA decided to focus on getting the second-hand market.
Plus, their new DRM was a GREAT PR move. It is even more restrictive than Activation Model Securom, but gamers are willing to accept it because DLC is oh-so shiny. And because it obviously isn't DRM since all the DLC is optional and thus it has no impact on people who acquire the game :p
I wouldn't be surprised if the activation models WERE a factor. But I sincerely doubt they changed away due to drop in sales. If anything, I suspect they changed away because everyone else was adopting it. And if you provide someone a more favorable alternative, they flock to you (even if said alternative is actually worse when you look at the reasons that people wanted it :p).
Hell, look at Impulse Vs Steam. They are essentially the same exact model, except that Impulse has a crapton less features (but as a result, doesn't require the client to be run). But people praise Impulse (well, they used to :p) because they didn't like the idea of having to always be online (even though they are...) while completely ignoring WHY Steam was always online (chat client originally, now a freaking awesome platform).
The major selling point of Impulse was that (for their own games at least) the client was barely required at all. Yes, you do need it to download and yes there's the store front there too. But simply being able to run the games without a disc, client or internet connection is a selling point. I'm not about to sing Impulse's praises as they sold out to make a fast buck and now get crapped on by publishers worse than any other DD service.
If a move away from activation limits has a positive effect then limited activations were having a negative effect. It's that simple. DRM isn't a benefit to the consumer after all. It is only ever going to be a negative thing.
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Gundato: Their two major titles that fiscal year were Spore and Mass Effect PC, right?

There was also Dead Space. That was also expected to do a lot better than it did. Generally the gist of it is that EA had a major run on new IPs that year and none of them did as well as expected.
If they had thought the IPs themselves were to blame then that doesn't explain how every one of them has either had a sequel since then or has one in the works (even Spore has something going on).
EA's PR was face down in the gutter at that point and that's something that even aloof suits with no understanding of the industry have to acknowledge.
What we did see instead was a move away from limited activations. Even if in some cases it has resulted in even worse DRM. Nobody (with their head screwed on straight) is saying that EA has improved. Just changed tactics.
As for the DLC DRM, I've not said a good word for it. They're not even trying to keep their true intentions secret there. They want to devalue their games' second hand value. It's that simple. But as far as DRM goes, a one time activation isn't so bad. Especially seeing as it is, you know, downloadable content. It's the intentions behind it that are crappy.
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Navagon: If a move away from activation limits has a positive effect then limited activations were having a negative effect. It's that simple. DRM isn't a benefit to the consumer after all. It is only ever going to be a negative thing.

Not necessarily. There are MANY arguments that Steam's DRM has really benefited some games. And Impulse Reactor is going to make Elemental even sexier.
And either way, it really isn't that simple.
Let's put it this way: Everyone is selling fast cars. You love fast cars. But then, Company RS starts selling fast cars with "go-fasta stripes". So you go buy that car, even though the seats are made of the flesh of children (which is actually a bonus. Smooth as a baby's bottom :p).
Same thing here. There wasn't necessarily anything inherently wrong with Activation Model Securom (from a sales point), but they found an alternative that made them look a LOT better when compared to everyone else.
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Gundato: Not necessarily. There are MANY arguments that Steam's DRM has really benefited some games. And Impulse Reactor is going to make Elemental even sexier.

Steam isn't DRM. SecuROM is DRM because it's designed to be DRM and nothing but DRM. It's pure 100% DRM.
The fact that your Steam games are tied to your Steam account is a form of DRM. The fact that most Steam games require the client running to play them is a form of DRM. But not every component part of Steam is DRM. The aspects of Steam that are of benefit to gamers aren't directly DRM-related. Although they may be as tied to the client as the games themselves are.
The point is: that saying Steam can be of benefit to gamers in some ways doesn't detract from the negative aspects of Steam - the DRM. So what you're actually saying is that it's possible for something to intrinsically have DRM yet still have positive qualities too. That much I don't dispute. But it's not a valid comparison to SecuROM.
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Gundato: Not necessarily. There are MANY arguments that Steam's DRM has really benefited some games. And Impulse Reactor is going to make Elemental even sexier.
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Navagon: Steam isn't DRM. SecuROM is DRM because it's designed to be DRM and nothing but DRM. It's pure 100% DRM.
The fact that your Steam games are tied to your Steam account is a form of DRM. The fact that most Steam games require the client running to play them is a form of DRM. But not every component part of Steam is DRM. The aspects of Steam that are of benefit to gamers aren't directly DRM-related. Although they may be as tied to the client as the games themselves are.
The point is: that saying Steam can be of benefit to gamers in some ways doesn't detract from the negative aspects of Steam - the DRM. So what you're actually saying is that it's possible for something to intrinsically have DRM yet still have positive qualities too. That much I don't dispute. But it's not a valid comparison to SecuROM.

I'll agree, it isn't a direct comparison to Securom. I was just pointing out that DRM is not inherently bad and has benefits, since you claimed that DRM is only ever going to be a negative. It is neither inherently good or bad.
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Gundato: It is neither inherently good or bad.

From a consumer perspective it's negative. The aspects of Steam that are DRM have no positive qualities for the end user.
low rated
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Gundato: It is neither inherently good or bad.
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Navagon: From a consumer perspective it's negative. The aspects of Steam that are DRM have no positive qualities for the end user.

Having all your serial numbers tied to a single account. That is pretty positive, as far as I am concerned.
Having your game tied to an account online rather than a disc is pretty nice too.
Having something that makes the devs and publishers feel secure enough to make more games. That is pretty positive as far as i am concerned.
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Gundato: Having all your serial numbers tied to a single account. That is pretty positive, as far as I am concerned.
Having your game tied to an account online rather than a disc is pretty nice too.
Having something that makes the devs and publishers feel secure enough to make more games. That is pretty positive as far as i am concerned.

- So you like them having the ability to suspend your whole account indefinitely, baring you access to every game in it? When their reasons for doing so include routine checks by credit card companies, I can't agree.
- Better than no DRM at all? No.
- From a consumer perspective. Stated this numerous times.
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Gundato: Having all your serial numbers tied to a single account. That is pretty positive, as far as I am concerned.
Having your game tied to an account online rather than a disc is pretty nice too.
Having something that makes the devs and publishers feel secure enough to make more games. That is pretty positive as far as i am concerned.
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Navagon: - So you like them having the ability to suspend your whole account indefinitely, baring you access to every game in it? When their reasons for doing so include routine checks by credit card companies, I can't agree.
- Better than no DRM at all? No.
- From a consumer perspective. Stated this numerous times.

First counterpoint: What routine checks are we talking about? Haven't heard about that one.
And either way, for 99% of consumers, this is a great service. Maybe you don't value it more, but I am sure you can see how many users WOULD value this. Hell, go install Neverwinter Nights Platinum and tell me you wouldn't prefer a single key for that :p
Second counter-point: And no DRM at all is not better than having Emmy Rossum pleasure me while I watch an army of developers make my dream video game.
And judging by all the people who claim their dogs ate their discs or that they lost the discs, this is also a pretty great service that is only possible through DRM. I again cite installing Neverwinter Nights Platinum :p
Third counterpoint: So the consumer does not benefit from games being made? :p. And hell, I still think installing Neverwinter Nights Platinum would reinforce this point, if only because it is so mind-numbingly annoying that it will act as a Jedi mind trick :p
For years I was 100% against all download services for games. It took me a while to even use Steam although I wanted very much to play HL2. In time I gave in and since then I bought hundreds of games from most major online "shops".
Because I used to (?) move a lot, house, country, whatever, I was forced to have a huge box shipped with my games, all in discs. Unfortunately I had to eventually throw away all the game boxes, back from the time when they were actually cool and original and not the dvd shit cases they are for years now.
Last year I decided it was time (I had to) throw away the last manuals too. The problem with that was that many of the cd-keys were printed on manuals. So, what I did was (and because I was in a hurry) for some games to write the key on the disc, for others not. For those not I had them typed into 3 files. On 5 HDDs, on 2 computers.
A few days ago all the files apart from 2 early versions which had just a few of the keys, were lost. And by lost I mean vanished. Almost like someone deleted them, but no one has access to the PCs, and no other files were missing. So I lost the keys for about 150 games or so.
Now the discs are coasters.
So I said to myself, fuck retail discs (for computer games). Seriously, I am just never going to buy one again unless there is a very very special reason, say some special item in the box or I don't know what.
Steam, GOG, GG, D2D, Impulse and all that, are more to be trusted. Is it possible they will go bust? Sure, but it is also possible I will die within the next hour so...
All I know is if those 150 games were bought from Steam and Co, I would still have the games.
EDIT: I will don't buy PC Ubisoft titles, that DRM of theirs is just stupid beyond belief.
EDIT 6:FFS GOG FIX THE DAMN FORUM SOFTWARE WITH THE QUOTES GOING ALL OVER THE TEXT.
Post edited July 14, 2010 by trusteft
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Navagon: ...

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing.