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I do know at least a little bit about the technical side of things and what a webpage is capable of, and, yes Gog is telling the truth. There is no way whatsoever that a web browser can possibly give information back to the server as to whether a given file was downloaded fully or not. If web browsers could do such things, the internet would be dead because any website could hijack your computer just by visiting it. Web pages are designed not to know things about your computer.

An external application like Steam can know things like that, but Gog simply doesn't work that way.

In addition when you signed up for the service you agreed to their terms of service, including the part about no refunds if you attempt to download the game or any of it's bonus files. If you didn't bother to read it but still clicked the button that said you did, that is hardly GoG's problem.

Now that being said, GoG is a great service, and having no DRM of any kind is their main thing. This is a good thing, so relax and enjoy your game.
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Amerika-p4l: Also, to the people saying "it's clearly stated as being DRM free". http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/alan_wake

Do a search for DRM on that page. There isn't a mention about it and naturally one would assume that a Steamworks title actually allows for the option to activate on Steam.
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rampancy: One of the founding and most prominently stated principles of GOG is that all of their games are sold as DRM-free. They even explicitly say so on their front page. They've said so over and over in interviews, press releases, podcasts and YouTube videos. It's actually a gross logical fallacy to assume that GOG's copy of Alan Wake will have Steamworks like Amazon's, or Steam's, just because it doesn't mention anything about DRM.

I do feel your pain, because I have bought games here on the gamble that they would work in WINE (e.g. Descent 3), but on the other hand, given GOG's very explicit position on DRM (Which would obviously include Steam/Steamworks), it's hard to accept your excuse as valid.
So because I had not heard of GoG's policies I should be punished? What kind of excuse is that for their support? I made a mistake and tried to get it fixed within minutes after I realized it. It's not like I downloaded every single file for the game and then tried to get a refund two days later. It was minutes later.

People point out that it's "clearly" marked on the purchase page that there is not DRM when it's not. People point out that I should have known...how was I actually supposed to know? Only a few actually read what I said and realize that the support I received was a bit under par for what you would expect from a company that makes it's money off of digital distribution.

I have actually needed to ask Steam for a refund once. Almost two years ago I made a pre-order on a game for $60 and Steam does not do any refunds for any reasons. But I was laid off and money was tight and I sent them a short email explaining that and asked for a refund. You know what they did? They went beyond their policy and refunded my money. Not long after that I got another job and I now have over 140 games in my Steam library. They didn't have to do that and I didn't expect them to but they went ahead and did it anyway.

That's the kind of service I expected from GoG when I realized my mistake and asked for something that wasn't unreasonable and expected that they would have a front end support tool that could easily check transfer logs. But as you can see that isn't what I got :(
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Amerika-p4l: 'snip
Sorry about your troubles, I wish you luck. Personally, my experience with this site has been pretty good, but first impressions make all the difference. While I do think you should have done your homework first before buying from this site, but I don't blame you for feeling burned.

Even if you don't want to give this site any more of your money, why not try out some of the free games offered here while you're still around. Get what you can ;)

And on the bright side at least you can still store your game to an external media. No internet? Feel like playing a game? Install away. An easier way to download is through this site's downloader. It may still be a picky at times, but it usually works for me.

edit; Guys, could you please stop voting him down? He is only trying to get advice for his problem and seeking potential solutions, he isn't trolling
Post edited May 09, 2012 by Thunderstone
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catwhowalks: I do know at least a little bit about the technical side of things and what a webpage is capable of, and, yes Gog is telling the truth. There is no way whatsoever that a web browser can possibly give information back to the server as to whether a given file was downloaded fully or not. If web browsers could do such things, the internet would be dead because any website could hijack your computer just by visiting it. Web pages are designed not to know things about your computer.

An external application like Steam can know things like that, but Gog simply doesn't work that way.

In addition when you signed up for the service you agreed to their terms of service, including the part about no refunds if you attempt to download the game or any of it's bonus files. If you didn't bother to read it but still clicked the button that said you did, that is hardly GoG's problem.

Now that being said, GoG is a great service, and having no DRM of any kind is their main thing. This is a good thing, so relax and enjoy your game.
A browser does not keep track of that type of information. But their server logs do. Companies use information like that to build support tools to help with situations like this and also to create metrics on everything from game purchases to bandwidth usage. I know this because I used to do it for a living. I'm currently a phone development engineer and I help sift through the logs that we capture from phones to assist in creating front end tools that every day people can use with a minimal amount of training.

So obviously I assumed that GoG, a company that specializes in digital distribution, would have very simple to create/use support tools.

But, I guess there is a reason why there is an often quoted cliche about assuming.

And no I am not trolling. I am only searching for a way for me to not hate GoG and by extension my purchase of Alan Wake. I know I still have access to the game but now when I play it I will be reminded of this and honestly this was a last ditch effort to help avoid that. I'm sure a lot of you can understand that reasoning. Even great things can be soured by a bad experience and I guess all I was hoping for was somebody else from support stepping in and understanding my position a bit better and possibly rectifying it or at least clarifying better than what I received via email.

I knew it would piss off people who love the service, I understand that...but I hope some of you can understand what I'm trying to do too. If the very least I do is cause a meeting tomorrow between GoG staff about possible changes then I guess it could maybe help somebody else in the future.

I am not trying to be antagonistic at all...I was just hoping for a better resolution than me being upset with a purchase of what is most assuredly a great game.
Post edited May 09, 2012 by Amerika-p4l
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Amerika-p4l: Do a search for DRM on that page. There isn't a mention about it and naturally one would assume that a Steamworks title actually allows for the option to activate on Steam.
It's not a Steamworks title. I'm sorry, the Steamworks was retrofitted in much later in Alan Wake. This isn't like Magicka which was built on Steamworks as the only method to implement much of the core game functionality. Steamworks was retrofitted in to take advantage of the same hooks that were already there because this is a XBox 360 game.

GOG's no DRM policy is prominently linked to from all over the site. I'm sorry that you didn't get what you expected but GOG doesn't have Steam keys to hand over, the executable provided does not include Steamworks, and they have no way of knowing that you cancelled your download or only downloaded one file, at least according to them. Steam itself wouldn't issue you a refund or credit either, based on their policies and the blogged experience of most of the Steam users on the internet.
Don't worry. Maybe right now you don't care but i'm sure one day you'll enjoy the game. No internet required. You can install the game with no limit. You can even play the game at some hidden underground cave or Alaska with no internet connection.

Is it big loss to you if the game doesn't have Steamworks feature? In this game, it's achievement and cloud save. I understand about the cloud save, but for me i don't care too much. If only you clicked the front page before..
Post edited May 09, 2012 by wormholewizards
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Amerika-p4l: It's not like there was only 1 download link. There were 4 or 5 2GB download links and I didn't click on a single one of those. There is no way there is only a "yes/no" flag that says yes once you click any of the 10-15 links that were on the page. This is why I am doubting GoG's integrity along with their "support" which does not include a purchase confirmation email, a support ticket # with a copy of your concerns in an email and then a proper response. I believe I have valid reasons to doubt right now.
Most of their software is homegrown and written in house, including this forum software, so it's very possible they just mark a flag the moment you start downloading anything. Just because you can imagine a more complex scenario doesn't make it so and support staff don't typically have direct server access. They can only see and do what their tools allow them to do, anything else must be kicked up the chain.
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Amerika-p4l: Do a search for DRM on that page. There isn't a mention about it and naturally one would assume that a Steamworks title actually allows for the option to activate on Steam.
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orcishgamer: It's not a Steamworks title. I'm sorry, the Steamworks was retrofitted in much later in Alan Wake. This isn't like Magicka which was built on Steamworks as the only method to implement much of the core game functionality. Steamworks was retrofitted in to take advantage of the same hooks that were already there because this is a XBox 360 game.

GOG's no DRM policy is prominently linked to from all over the site. I'm sorry that you didn't get what you expected but GOG doesn't have Steam keys to hand over, the executable provided does not include Steamworks, and they have no way of knowing that you cancelled your download or only downloaded one file, at least according to them. Steam itself wouldn't issue you a refund or credit either, based on their policies and the blogged experience of most of the Steam users on the internet.
http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/12/17/alan-wake-to-be-self-published-by-remedy-will-use-steamworks-not-gfwl/
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Amerika-p4l: So because I had not heard of GoG's policies I should be punished? What kind of excuse is that for their support? I made a mistake and tried to get it fixed within minutes after I realized it. It's not like I downloaded every single file for the game and then tried to get a refund two days later. It was minutes later.
Umm, you know, they tried to shove them in your face multiple times, including the TOS regarding refunds. I don't know what you expect them to do on this count.
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Amerika-p4l: It's not like there was only 1 download link. There were 4 or 5 2GB download links and I didn't click on a single one of those. There is no way there is only a "yes/no" flag that says yes once you click any of the 10-15 links that were on the page. This is why I am doubting GoG's integrity along with their "support" which does not include a purchase confirmation email, a support ticket # with a copy of your concerns in an email and then a proper response. I believe I have valid reasons to doubt right now.
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orcishgamer: Most of their software is homegrown and written in house, including this forum software, so it's very possible they just mark a flag the moment you start downloading anything. Just because you can imagine a more complex scenario doesn't make it so and support staff don't typically have direct server access. They can only see and do what their tools allow them to do, anything else must be kicked up the chain.
I understand that but they specialize in digital distribution and are a tech company by trade. They have a tool which can check whether or not you downloaded a file...well you do realize that the same log would say which file it is. That log would also show that there were no other downloads of any other files which were the extremely large 2gb files listed on that site. However, they either chose not to include the extremely easy to implement ability for support staff to check that themselves via the mentioned tool or they are hiding behind a policy to ensure that they don't lose a sale. I will go with the former even though it makes almost no sense because i hate the sounds of the latter since I am not a fan of conspiracy theories.
Just because they published one version with Steamworks doesn't mean they are all Steamworks. This is exactly what I'm trying to explain, they "added" the Steamworks in after the fact, this is not a "Steamworks game", Steamworks is not baked into its bones. Runic's Torchlight was much the same way (and TL2 for that matter) they publish multiple executables and only the version sold on Steam includes Steamworks.
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Amerika-p4l: So because I had not heard of GoG's policies I should be punished? What kind of excuse is that for their support? I made a mistake and tried to get it fixed within minutes after I realized it. It's not like I downloaded every single file for the game and then tried to get a refund two days later. It was minutes later.
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orcishgamer: Umm, you know, they tried to shove them in your face multiple times, including the TOS regarding refunds. I don't know what you expect them to do on this count.
I expect them to help me fix the issue when I realized the problem a few minutes after I purchased the game. How hard is that to understand? You keep harping on me not knowing about the site when I don't have a problem with the site and it's DRM policies...I have a problem with asking for help within minutes and receiving extremely underwhelming support in almost every way from GoG.
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Amerika-p4l: I understand that but they specialize in digital distribution and are a tech company by trade. They have a tool which can check whether or not you downloaded a file...well you do realize that the same log would say which file it is. That log would also show that there were no other downloads of any other files which were the extremely large 2gb files listed on that site. However, they either chose not to include the extremely easy to implement ability for support staff to check that themselves via the mentioned tool or they are hiding behind a policy to ensure that they don't lose a sale. I will go with the former even though it makes almost no sense because i hate the sounds of the latter since I am not a fan of conspiracy theories.
Do you really imagine their tool looks directly at the /var/logs files? Because it doesn't, I can guarantee it checks a value in a database somewhere. If no one coded it to keep track of things a more granular level then it quiet simply isn't available without an IT guy going over the actual server logs, if they even exist and if they haven't rolled over by the time he/she gets to them, and if they can even tell which entries are yours given the amount of info the webserver is probably crapping into them every minute.
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orcishgamer: Umm, you know, they tried to shove them in your face multiple times, including the TOS regarding refunds. I don't know what you expect them to do on this count.
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Amerika-p4l: I expect them to help me fix the issue when I realized the problem a few minutes after I purchased the game. How hard is that to understand? You keep harping on me not knowing about the site when I don't have a problem with the site and it's DRM policies...I have a problem with asking for help within minutes and receiving extremely underwhelming support in almost every way from GoG.
Okay, you had the perfect storm of "you cannot receive a refund if you've done X, Y, and Z" and you had done X, Y, and Z. Steam wouldn't have refunded you and neither would Amazon. The support person probably does not speak English as a first language, though I'm sure they are fluent enough, the tone may have come across in a way that you found less helpful. Also, they are Polish so you may be talking to the folks on "off hours" when not a lot of other staff is available.

I'm sorry you didn't get a refund, but you technically didn't deserve one. Your entire nitpick is that, what? They weren't polite enough when they turned you down? I suppose that's possible, but still not really worth getting too worked up about.

You see, you have a problem, but in your mind the only resolution is "refund" when that might not actually be viable, for whatever reason. You don't actually sound like you wanted to spend all the supposed money you claim to have been willing to spend on GOG because you seem to want all your games in your Steam library, so cut that red herring stuff, please, it's slightly insulting.
Post edited May 10, 2012 by orcishgamer
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Amerika-p4l: However, they either chose not to include the extremely easy to implement ability for support staff to check that themselves via the mentioned tool or they are hiding behind a policy to ensure that they don't lose a sale.
Right - so now GOG might be 'hiding' behind a policy that was in place before you purchased the game ?

Or maybe it's just another one of your assumptions ?

It took me perhaps twenty seconds to find the information about refunds - likely a good deal less time than it took you to write your original post.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of casting aspersions ?
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Amerika-p4l: I understand that but they specialize in digital distribution and are a tech company by trade. They have a tool which can check whether or not you downloaded a file...well you do realize that the same log would say which file it is. That log would also show that there were no other downloads of any other files which were the extremely large 2gb files listed on that site. However, they either chose not to include the extremely easy to implement ability for support staff to check that themselves via the mentioned tool or they are hiding behind a policy to ensure that they don't lose a sale. I will go with the former even though it makes almost no sense because i hate the sounds of the latter since I am not a fan of conspiracy theories.
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orcishgamer: Do you really imagine their tool looks directly at the /var/logs files? Because it doesn't, I can guarantee it checks a value in a database somewhere. If no one coded it to keep track of things a more granular level then it quiet simply isn't available without an IT guy going over the actual server logs, if they even exist and if they haven't rolled over by the time he/she gets to them, and if they can even tell which entries are yours given the amount of info the webserver is probably crapping into them every minute.
Yeah, I can imagine that and I explained why...because I do it for a living and almost every tech company has the ability to see what their users have done. It's a requirement for not only support reasons but for metrics (metrics which are used to help secure investor funding). And no, the information would not be stored in a database as that database would get freaking huge if every single bit of information from every click was recorded...that's just stupid. And yes, you would search the log files...that's why they are created and it's what those tools are designed to do.

At the last company I worked for we had a tool that tracked all of our downloads and I could easily tell how much was downloaded, where it went to and how long the transfer took among other things. All it did was parse the log files for the customer. It was very granular and was quite nice.

Do I believe GoG support staff may not have that ability? Yup, I do...I've seen much worse. Does that mean I have to except it as a reason why they can't help me? Nope. It's a ridiculous thing to not have for support.

But at this point you and I are not going to agree. You believe I should be punished and I just want resolution to what I thought would be an easy support issue.