It makes no sense whatsoever, I need 8 body to move the dumpster in "I can see clearly now"... who thought it would be a good idea to scale skill checks? :/

Some genius at RED thought it a good idea since they've already confirmed that scalling of skill checks is "working as intended".

Luckily i spotted the idiocy while playing a bit with a friend's install of 2.0 - saved me the 30€ of PL.

Incredible lol, they cant be serious. If I go with a low lvl char to move a trash can, I need 4 body. If I go with a high lvl char to move a trash can, I need 8 body. The trash can gets heavier the more I level my char up.

Imagine this in Fallout games with speech checks. You go to do a speech check at lvl 1, you only need 5 speech. You do it at lvl 10, you now need 50 speech. So at low lvl it´s easier to convince ppl than at lvl 10.

Absolute braindead logic and bad gameplay (rush things at early lvl for easier checks).

Doesn't Gorilla Arms still add to the strength check stat? I believe it was +4 Body just by having them equipped.
...Also, I am personally opposed to do that particular mission until I can save Brendan and having him transferred to replace the S.C.S.M. in the apartment.

I think they top out at +6 to body checks now.

Some of the stat check scaling is a little stupid. You basically need a 20 to get anything done beyond a certain point.

Yeah, it's terrible, it makes V weaker and dumber the more he/she levels.

Dialogue skill checks even come with an extra wrinkle, depending on how far V is from the target value the skill checks may not even appear at all as a dialogue option, so hidden skill checks - the feature every gamer wants in a story/dialogue driven videogame.

"Oh wow, there was a dialogue option I missed because my INT attribute was too low?! I'm going to replay the entire game for that!!"
- No Gamer, Ever.

Actually, that is a point in Cyberpunk 2077. Different lifepaths and builds occasionally offers different dialogue options.
I didn't start over with 2.0 patch, but Technical Ability still almost feels mandatory, especially when doing stealth builds.

I'm personally partial to Corpo, and without having played the whole game as Nomad (completed the base game as Street Kid and Corpo), it feels like Corpo has more dialogue options overall throughout the game.
...Though Nomad gives us an exclusive car I'm really partial to. At least until I got the CET console code for it.

I think the lifepath differences are meaningful (should just be more of them). And I haven't yet done the Nomad playthrough to the end, so I will replay for that at some point. But the other dialogue choices hidden and/or locked behind scaling attribute checks? blech. I'm not replaying just to get those.

If they're liable to simply not be there by virtue of how you spread your points how would you know you missed 1 or 10 or 100 ?

But sure, i get it. If all you care about is the loota-shoota then this is irrelevant. I assure you it is not irrelevant for someone like me who couldn't care less about the loota-shoota but has a great appreciation for the off the charts production values this game has in terms of story, writing, characterization and scene composition.

It was tongue in cheek, because it hardly seems a serious discussion - after all, is anyone really defending skill check scaling?
(and assume people would know because, well, you're using it - internet resources)

I'm most curious though where you're picking up the vibe that I'm all about loota-shoota? Not really, very far from it actually.

If you really will unflinchingly commit to a new playthrough though because of missing one or two dialogue options that required an attribute level that's out of reach, more power to you and I apologise for inadvertently characterising you as not a gamer. I'm not going to knock you for that commitment to the game. Really. But come on, the majority are not going to repeat it for it. The vast majority. Heck, the majority don't even finish the game 1 time.
However that aside, skill check scaling is not good, right? right?

And I'll make a distinction here: where there is value, where choices actually matter, I'm all for branching narrative and selective dialogue and replaying games to experience it. Almost the entirety of the dialogue in CP2077 is inert, doesn't make a dent on the narrative. So why gate the 'flavour' of different dialogue, dialogue that serves only to give a sense of immersion rather than changing outcomes? If the dialogue choices actually changed things, it would be a different discussion - I still wouldn't fall in favour of level scaled skill checks, but I would fall in favour of having different outcomes leading to multiple playthroughs to experience them. That's not what we're getting here though.

I have completed the game 3 times, doing the different lifepaths and different builds. But that sure wasn't to "experience the dialogue options", it was to try different builds...with the dialogue options, admittedly, as a bonus.

As for strength scaling, that is BS - there is no reason for anything in the game to get passively heavier over time, unless that is specifically mentioned. Which it isn't. So if anything, a static strength check should decrease with progression, not increased. As our character gets stronger / smarter / more technical yada-yada-yada.

Or what the hell, just attach the obstacle (whenever possible) to our car and use that to move it. As is possible in real life. This game was initially claimed to be a "do anything" simulator anyway. Where we can't even shoot kids. Which is why I haven't completed the game 4 times, because of all the restrictions.

Anywho, what I could get along with would be: keep the strength checks, BUT change the status of the object in question.
- Is the dumpster full? 10 Body. Maybe come back at a set time of day when it has been emptied by NC renovation.
- Is the dumpster empty? 4 Body.

- Is a locked door reinforced? 16 Body
- Is a locked door made of metal? 10 Body.
- Is a locked door made of wood? 4 Body.

As it is, the scaling system is bad, I agree.

And all weapon mods needs to be removable. Even if we only could do it at weapon vendors (making them actually useful). And clothes needs to be more valuable.10.000 Eddies for a gun, but 200 Eddies for an exquisite dress?
I'm no expect, most expensive piece of clothing I own is a 350 USD jacket that I bought on sale for 200, but are you kidding me!?

I'm not going to commit to a new playthrough over missed dialogue options, not in 2077 or any other game.

In regards to 2077 specifically i'll stick stick with 1.63 where i simply fail some of the checks in a sensible way when V comes up short in this or that att in order to pass the check - as it should be.

But yes, it's hardly a discussion because, unlike level scaling where there are folks on each side of the fence putting forward decent argumentation for and against it, no one can put forward decent argumentation to defend this.

The loota-shoota remark was merely an assumption, apparently a wrong one - my bad, since you didn't seem really concerned with the game depriving you from dialogue lines from main chars, buddies, romantic interests, etc by virtue of the scaling. I kinda assumed folks more invested in storytelling and characterization would have a real problem with this just like folks more invested in the loota-shoota aspect will tend to drift more towards concerns related to nerfs, balance, etc, and possibly not care about this as much.

Skill checks scaling is definitely not good. Unfortunately RED seems to disagree, here's hoping they'll revisit an unquestionably bad design decision somewhere down the line.