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Cyberpunk 2077The Witcher 3 and RPGs(10 posts)(10 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted December 20, 2020
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To all the people that think it's a true RPG it's not.
All "choices" that you think you make aren't really your choices. All the outcomes of each "choice" are already there. All you're doing is coming along and triggering the true or false condition.
The impact you think you're making isn't real. It's already been programmed to happen. It's a one (exist) or a zero (don't exist).
What you want isn't possible with the technology we have available now.
The way a character reacts to what you've done isn't dynamic. It's already there. They can be angry with you. They can be happy with you. They can be indifferent with you. They can not care what you've done. They can blackmail you. They can turn against you. Etc, etc. None of any of these is a choice created by you. Any one of them already exists. You are just coming along and triggering a 1 or a 0. The choice you make doesn't matter. There is no impact to be made. You cannot affect the world or characters in any way shape or form that hasn't already been programmed to happen.
Games like The Witcher 3, Skyrim and any "RPG" are just like movies. The only difference is you can choose which way to go. Imagine connect the dots. You can travel to any dot. In any order you want. You can ignore the dots. But you cannot create new dots.
All games are interactive movies. All outcomes are waiting to be triggered.
If you think the choices you make are real and have impact you're a fool. Those "choices" and "impacts" are already there just waiting for you to trigger them. They aren't dynamic. Because if they were no two people would ever get the same result.
Posted December 20, 2020
avatar
REG2012: To all the people that think it's a true RPG it's not.
All "choices" that you think you make aren't really your choices. All the outcomes of each "choice" are already there. All you're doing is coming along and triggering the true or false condition.
The impact you think you're making isn't real. It's already been programmed to happen. It's a one (exist) or a zero (don't exist).
What you want isn't possible with the technology we have available now.
The way a character reacts to what you've done isn't dynamic. It's already there. They can be angry with you. They can be happy with you. They can be indifferent with you. They can not care what you've done. They can blackmail you. They can turn against you. Etc, etc. None of any of these is a choice created by you. Any one of them already exists. You are just coming along and triggering a 1 or a 0. The choice you make doesn't matter. There is no impact to be made. You cannot affect the world or characters in any way shape or form that hasn't already been programmed to happen.
Games like The Witcher 3, Skyrim and any "RPG" are just like movies. The only difference is you can choose which way to go. Imagine connect the dots. You can travel to any dot. In any order you want. You can ignore the dots. But you cannot create new dots.
All games are interactive movies. All outcomes are waiting to be triggered.
If you think the choices you make are real and have impact you're a fool. Those "choices" and "impacts" are already there just waiting for you to trigger them. They aren't dynamic. Because if they were no two people would ever get the same result.
So let's talk about a bit of the RPGs.

you need a GM/DM and 1-X players (5 is the best)

The next step is the GM write or choose one pre wrote adventure. Example: the Shadowrun DNA/DOA module

The GM telling this story for the players. There is a starting point and an end point between story hooks main objectives/side objectives npcs gear etc.

you are right, in the pnp games the players have the choices not to follow the story road in this case the GM has 2 paths: improvising or try to find a way to pull back the players into the story.

You can make digital rpgs

The game itself is the DM and the pc user is the player ofc BUT there is one major difference! the player can't turn off the road because he can't tell the Game(DM) what he/she want.
BUT the developers have the knowlage to make an illusion you have multiple ways and have the skills to make multiple paths.

And that's the problem in this game in cyberpunk 2077 the developers are not implemented those paths. They have made 1 path and the end you can choose maximum of 2 endings.

We have the tech to make complex games but it's money and time this game had both but faild.

Ok?
Post edited December 20, 2020 by urza7
Posted December 20, 2020
avatar
urza7: The GM telling this story for the players. There is a starting point and an end point between story hooks main objectives/side objectives npcs gear etc.

you are right, in the pnp games the players have the choices not to follow the story road in this case the GM has 2 paths: improvising or try to find a way to pull back the players into the story.

You can make digital rpgs

The game itself is the DM and the pc user is the player ofc BUT there is one major difference! the player can't turn off the road because he can't tell the Game(DM) what he/she want.
BUT the developers have the knowlage to make an illusion you have multiple ways and have the skills to make multiple paths.

And that's the problem in this game in cyberpunk 2077 the developers are not implemented those paths. They have made 1 path and the end you can choose maximum of 2 endings.

We have the tech to make complex games but it's money and time this game had both but faild.

Ok?
No the game is not a DM. The game is a world created from scratch, from nothing by the devs. Programmers, artists, sound engineers, musicians, scripters, UI designers, etc, etc. There is no game in the world that can react on it's own accord to what a player does. It's not possible. A computer and by extension a computer program such as a game cannot make decisions on it's own. It doesn't have a brain. It cannot react emotionally. The likelihood of such a game existing in our life time is slim to none.

You don't get to tell the game what you want. The game offers you possibilities and you choose which one you want. That's it. It doesn't go further than that. If you don't like the choices presented too fucken bad. The level of choice you are describing would require self aware AI which is way off. Beyond our life span. It's not going to happen.

Even The Witcher 3 is the same. Skyrim, Mass Effect, Dark Souls, Assassin’s Creed, Fallout, etc and any other RPG game have the same traits. All true or false conditions that you trigger. None of the decisions or outcomes are made by you. They are already there. They are programmed in. You just come along and choose true or false conditions. Nothing more. The end.
Posted December 21, 2020
So what you're saying is that the computer game we're playing is in fact a computer game. Ok.
Posted December 21, 2020
avatar
REG2012: To all the people that think it's a true RPG it's not.
All "choices" that you think you make aren't really your choices. All the outcomes of each "choice" are already there. All you're doing is coming along and triggering the true or false condition.
The impact you think you're making isn't real. It's already been programmed to happen. It's a one (exist) or a zero (don't exist).
What you want isn't possible with the technology we have available now.
The way a character reacts to what you've done isn't dynamic. It's already there. They can be angry with you. They can be happy with you. They can be indifferent with you. They can not care what you've done. They can blackmail you. They can turn against you. Etc, etc. None of any of these is a choice created by you. Any one of them already exists. You are just coming along and triggering a 1 or a 0. The choice you make doesn't matter. There is no impact to be made. You cannot affect the world or characters in any way shape or form that hasn't already been programmed to happen.
Games like The Witcher 3, Skyrim and any "RPG" are just like movies. The only difference is you can choose which way to go. Imagine connect the dots. You can travel to any dot. In any order you want. You can ignore the dots. But you cannot create new dots.
All games are interactive movies. All outcomes are waiting to be triggered.
If you think the choices you make are real and have impact you're a fool. Those "choices" and "impacts" are already there just waiting for you to trigger them. They aren't dynamic. Because if they were no two people would ever get the same result.
i agree but all games prior to cyberpunk were praised for these fake choices while cyberpunk now gets all the hate for not having real choices...

do you know exanima by any chance?
Posted December 21, 2020
If you mean it's not a true RPG in that choices impacts the world you're in and have consequences - then yes, I agree. This game is not an RPG (even CDPR went away from that to draw in the GTA V crowd).

Many things where cut (like part of the story and role choices) out to streamline the story and all was made to make you think you had/have a choice, but in reality you don't. Many times I've reloaded to see what happens in other dialogue choices, but they largely remains the same.

Choices in the different areas of the city have no impact, and your standings towards NCPD have no impact either.

Even the three distinct life choices was cut out, and no matter what you choose, you end up in the same path after 20 minutes.

There's either do or don't (only said differently mostly), not how you do them. That's where the different endings come in, if you do a few of the sidemissions.
Post edited December 21, 2020 by sanscript
Posted December 21, 2020
avatar
sanscript: Even the three distinct life choices was cut out, and no matter what you choose, you end up in the same path after 20 minutes.
Think the point is that's pretty much par for the course in every cRPG. Dragon Age Origins being an obvious example - multiple starts that all put you on an identical path; ending slides entirely dependent on whether you chose A or B at a specific point (although at times they go as far as having an option C, but then they didn't have an open world to worry about). Around ninety percent of your choices in that game are purely cosmetic for all intents and purposes, and when they're not they're ultimately a choice between having the Coke or the Pepsi, i.e. do option A for more XP, option B for more money.

It's inherent in the nature of the game. If you want a game based around a story rather than a sandbox you're going to have to be put on rails at some point, and that train can only go through the beginning, middle and end stations.
Posted December 22, 2020
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zatom.gozu: i agree but all games prior to cyberpunk were praised for these fake choices while cyberpunk now gets all the hate for not having real choices...

do you know exanima by any chance?
There have been many games where there are fake choices. Witcher 3 and Skyrim is among them

Not I haven't. I'll look it up.
Posted December 22, 2020
avatar
zatom.gozu: i agree but all games prior to cyberpunk were praised for these fake choices while cyberpunk now gets all the hate for not having real choices...

do you know exanima by any chance?
avatar
REG2012: There have been many games where there are fake choices. Witcher 3 and Skyrim is among them

Not I haven't. I'll look it up.
not just many.. my claim is ALL in the past years.. maybe deus ex 1 had real choices but what NEW game (besides crpg and the genre that life is strange would be in) had REAL choices i just want one example
REAL good games do not exist anymore for a long time and i hated them all while everyone was praising them and now everybody hates cyberpunk for the exact same reasons cause its cool ~~

and im not saying exanima is good, its proimising but in EA hell since idk and small indie devs so probably never will be finished. but they have some innovative mechanics
Posted December 22, 2020
avatar
REG2012: To all the people that think it's a true RPG it's not.
All "choices" that you think you make aren't really your choices. All the outcomes of each "choice" are already there. All you're doing is coming along and triggering the true or false condition.
The impact you think you're making isn't real. It's already been programmed to happen. It's a one (exist) or a zero (don't exist).
What you want isn't possible with the technology we have available now.
The way a character reacts to what you've done isn't dynamic. It's already there. They can be angry with you. They can be happy with you. They can be indifferent with you. They can not care what you've done. They can blackmail you. They can turn against you. Etc, etc. None of any of these is a choice created by you. Any one of them already exists. You are just coming along and triggering a 1 or a 0. The choice you make doesn't matter. There is no impact to be made. You cannot affect the world or characters in any way shape or form that hasn't already been programmed to happen.
Games like The Witcher 3, Skyrim and any "RPG" are just like movies. The only difference is you can choose which way to go. Imagine connect the dots. You can travel to any dot. In any order you want. You can ignore the dots. But you cannot create new dots.
All games are interactive movies. All outcomes are waiting to be triggered.
If you think the choices you make are real and have impact you're a fool. Those "choices" and "impacts" are already there just waiting for you to trigger them. They aren't dynamic. Because if they were no two people would ever get the same result.
Totally agree, the game is so damn on rails saying its an rpg is a damn lie.
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Cyberpunk 2077The Witcher 3 and RPGs(10 posts)(10 posts)
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