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dtgreene: Which version of Tetris, because they're not the same. (Compare, for example Tetris the Grand Master and Tetris DS.)
I'm referring to the classic NES and the Atari one - that had two player mode - but Tetris is a basic concept that is suitable to have variations. Some have been even trashy clones, same way as one could make a bad chess game. You know what the basic concept of Tetris is. It doen't matter if it was on a Game Boy or at the arcades.
Post edited January 20, 2021 by Dogmaus
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Dogmaus: I'm referring to the classic NES and the Atari one - that had two player mode - but Tetris is a basic concept that is suitable to have variations. Some have been even trashy clones, same way as one could make a bad chess game. You know what the basic concept of Tetris is. It doen't matter if it was on a Game Boy or at the arcades.
I mean, the classic NES version is still the standard for tournaments, and maybe also because of my age to me it's clear that that one is THE Tetris.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w_WO3vueYI
Post edited January 20, 2021 by Dogmaus
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Dogmaus: The best game ever created is chess. The best videogame is Tetris. Timeless and for everyone.
For both, you don't even need to be able to read or know a specific language.
Tetris as old as it is hearing-impared friendly, daltonic friendly. Good music for the classic version but absolutely playable without audio. The blocks are coloured but can be distinguished by shape - hence the gray scaled Game Boy version was a hit too. It's accessible to everyone - it begins as very easy and the mechanics are simple. Hard to master so it can be satisfying for a long time.
Saying chess/Tetris is the best game ever created is like saying the Bible is the greatest book ever. I mean (whether you are atheist or theist) that is technically a plausible answer, but the person asking the question probably expected something along the lines of "Moby Dick" or "the Lord of the Rings" or "Winnetou".

Besides, just because it's simple doesn't mean people will want to get into it. I have tried, trust me, to get my parents into chess many times, but have failed at it repeatedly.
Post edited January 20, 2021 by GeraltOfRivia_PL
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Dogmaus: I'm referring to the classic NES and the Atari one - that had two player mode - but Tetris is a basic concept that is suitable to have variations. Some have been even trashy clones, same way as one could make a bad chess game. You know what the basic concept of Tetris is. It doen't matter if it was on a Game Boy or at the arcades.
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Dogmaus: I mean, the classic NES version is still the standard for tournaments, and maybe also because of my age to me it's clear that that one is THE Tetris.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7w_WO3vueYI
Interestingly enough, in Japan it's the Sega Arcade Tetris that is the most famous, I believe.

Just like Atari, Sega tried to make a console version, but its release didn't happen due to legal issues. I believe the ROM does exist on the Internet, though it's worth noting that this version is different from the arcade version.

The version on the Sega Genesis Mini is a more direct port of the arcade version, though there's an options menu that allows one to enable right rotation (the arcade version only had left rotation) and hard drop.

The Tetris the Grand Master series was inspired by Sega Tetris, to my understanding, but was made because people found Sega Tetris to be too easy and wanted something harder.

(Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more copies of Game Boy Tetris produced than NES Tetris.)
Blade Runner
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GeraltOfRivia_PL: Saying chess/Tetris is the best game ever created is like saying the Bible is the greatest book ever. I mean (whether you are atheist or theist) that is technically a plausible answer, but the person asking the question probably expected something along the lines of "Moby Dick" or "the Lord of the Rings" or "Winnetou".

Besides, just because it's simple doesn't mean people will want to get into it. I have tried, trust me, to get my parents into chess many times, but have failed at it repeatedly.
I think that Tetris has a universal component that makes it enjoyable from every kind of people regardless of their culture. A book, expecially a religious text, cannot have that, because it's tied to language and believes. I'm not saying that every person will love Tetris, or any game. Did you try to get your parents into Baldur's Gate 2? I'm sure that most people in the world would prefer Tetris.
Also, NES Tetris is something specific, and the same for everyone - of course playing it at the arcades, on a NES at home and on an emulator are different experiences. While "the Bible" is not really a specific book. There's many "bibles" depending on the source materials, the intention of the translators and so on.

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dtgreene: (Also, I wouldn't be surprised if there were more copies of Game Boy Tetris produced than NES Tetris.)
Yes, Game Boy Tetris was a real mania. Game Boys came bundled with it, and it was a great move from Nintendo. The NES version is in the collective memory of everyone who used to go to the arcades, or even just in bars. We used to have videogames there, before they were replaced with slot machines.
Post edited January 20, 2021 by Dogmaus
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GeraltOfRivia_PL: After Baldur's Gate 2, what is the best game ever created?

...

Please excuse my horrible English. I am not very good at it.
You are trolling and you know it. In case your English is so poor you don't understand, you are posting something that is not true in order to provoke a reaction. In this case you are suggesting that most people agree that BG2 is one of the best games.

Fix it. It has nothing to do with English. It has to do with your personality.
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lupineshadow: You are trolling and you know it. In case your English is so poor you don't understand, you are posting something that is not true in order to provoke a reaction. In this case you are suggesting that most people agree that BG2 is one of the best games.

Fix it. It has nothing to do with English. It has to do with your personality.
I usually ignore OP's post, this one had a silly bias in the way it's formulated but at least can be a real discussion, what's the best game and why, if you leave out that "after Baldur's Gate 2" part, that implies that every user should recognize it as true as a base for the discussion.
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GeraltOfRivia_PL: [...]
Besides, just because it's simple doesn't mean people will want to get into it. I have tried, trust me, to get my parents into chess many times, but have failed at it repeatedly.
Well, Chess is anything but simple. Yes it seems simple at a clance, but the rules are actually quite complex with the different movments of the different pieces, the strategy needed and so on (not even mentioning special situational rules such as casteling and en passant). Quite a lot of people do not like chess just because of this complexity of both gameplay and the rules.

Tetris, on the other hand, is simple. It is easy to learn and understand. If you want to compare a game to this, it would be more something like Snake and Ladders
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amok: Well, Chess is anything but simple. Yes it seems simple at a clance, but the rules are actually quite complex with the different movments of the different pieces, the strategy needed and so on (not even mentioning special situational rules such as casteling and en passant). Quite a lot of people do not like chess just because of this complexity of both gameplay and the rules.

Tetris, on the other hand, is simple. It is easy to learn and understand. If you want to compare a game to this, it would be more something like Snake and Ladders
Well, checkers is easier, but two beginners can still play chess or try to solve problems, despite of their level. Of course masters will play very differently. Once you know how the pieces move you can play.
Tetris is much more immediate, but you will need a well trained mind to play at higher levels.
Post edited January 20, 2021 by Dogmaus
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amok: Tetris, on the other hand, is simple. It is easy to learn and understand.
There's still a lot of depth in the game, which can make it not quite so easy to understand. In particular, here's some terminology (some of which refers to gameplay differences in Tetris variants):
* Soft/hard/sonic drop
* Lock delay
* DAS (and hypertapping)
* T-spin (and T-spin tripples)
* 20G
* Rotation systems (original, Nintendo, Sega, ARS, SRS)
* Randomizers (like 7-bag)

Also, I note that scholarly articles about Tetris have been written and published in mathematical journals. There's questions about whether one can play forever (depends on the piece randomizer, as it turns out), and the computational complexity of solving Tetris (I think it *might* be NP-hard).

It's definitely more complex than a game like Chutes and Ladders.

Just watch this video to see what Tetris can be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zin8O7440n0
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amok: Tetris, on the other hand, is simple. It is easy to learn and understand.
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dtgreene: There's still a lot of depth in the game, which can make it not quite so easy to understand. In particular, here's some terminology (some of which refers to gameplay differences in Tetris variants):
* Soft/hard/sonic drop
* Lock delay
* DAS (and hypertapping)
* T-spin (and T-spin tripples)
* 20G
* Rotation systems (original, Nintendo, Sega, ARS, SRS)
* Randomizers (like 7-bag)

Also, I note that scholarly articles about Tetris have been written and published in mathematical journals. There's questions about whether one can play forever (depends on the piece randomizer, as it turns out), and the computational complexity of solving Tetris (I think it *might* be NP-hard).

It's definitely more complex than a game like Chutes and Ladders.

Just watch this video to see what Tetris can be like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zin8O7440n0
to be strickt, you are a) talking about different versions of tetris, and b) issues that are more interesting to coders / developers than players. Tetris (as the game with only Tetris in its name) has very clear and easy to undertand rules, and the gampleay is very simple. You move the tetrimino left and right, and you rotate it, you can drop it. There is only 5 tetriminos. You remove a row by filling it. The game goes faster the longer you play.... that's it...

Snakes and ladders? Dice rolling. Turn taking. What happens on differnt squares. How much do you need to reach the end.

If I then followed your example, then you can talk about probabilites, claculating numbers of throws, bring in variations of snake and ladders games, dicuss the material of the dice, bring in differnt side dices, the design of where to place the ladders and snakes, how many squares they should move you up or down, and so on.
Post edited January 20, 2021 by amok
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amok: to be strickt, you are a) talking about different versions of tetris, and b) issues that are more interesting to coders / developers than players. Tetris (as the game with only Tetris in its name) has very clear and easy to undertand rules, and the gampleay is very simple. You move the tetrimino left and right, and you rotate it, you can drop it. There is only 5 tetriminos. You remove a row by filling it. The game goes faster the longer you play.... that's it...
Actually:
* Advanced Tetris players do talk about this sort of thing. If you watch any of the GDQ TGM runs, or even if you watch TGM streamers, you'll likely hear mention of some of these terms.
* There are multiple games whose official name is just "Tetris".
* There are actually 7 tetrominos, not 5.
* Not every Tetris game gets faster monotonically. In fact, in TGM, the game will actually slow down once you reach level 200, only to speed back up again later. Then, there's also some slowdown during the "awkward-G" section, the part before it reaches 20G. Also, often there's a point where the speed stops increasing. (For example, in NES Tetris this happens at level 29 (considered a kill screen for many years), and TGM1 stops increasing speed after level 500.)
* These are things that affect players, not just something developers are concerned with.
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amok: to be strickt, you are a) talking about different versions of tetris, and b) issues that are more interesting to coders / developers than players. Tetris (as the game with only Tetris in its name) has very clear and easy to undertand rules, and the gampleay is very simple. You move the tetrimino left and right, and you rotate it, you can drop it. There is only 5 tetriminos. You remove a row by filling it. The game goes faster the longer you play.... that's it...
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dtgreene: Actually:
* Advanced Tetris players do talk about this sort of thing. If you watch any of the GDQ TGM runs, or even if you watch TGM streamers, you'll likely hear mention of some of these terms.
* There are multiple games whose official name is just "Tetris".
* There are actually 7 tetrominos, not 5.
* Not every Tetris game gets faster monotonically. In fact, in TGM, the game will actually slow down once you reach level 200, only to speed back up again later. Then, there's also some slowdown during the "awkward-G" section, the part before it reaches 20G. Also, often there's a point where the speed stops increasing. (For example, in NES Tetris this happens at level 29 (considered a kill screen for many years), and TGM1 stops increasing speed after level 500.)
* These are things that affect players, not just something developers are concerned with.
There are many variations of tetris, who only uses that name, but there is also only one original tetris, which is the one most people mean when they talk about tetris. There are aslo many different variations of snake and ladders, many with the same name. It is pointless to talk about Tetris, if you are going to talk about everything different Tetris unders the sun, as there are so many different variations. Stick to the original Tetris, please (as designed by Alexey Pajitnov) not all its esoteric off shoots.

There are 5 free tetriminos, however you can add the 2 which are chiral, making it to seven, yes. In the same way, you can also say there are 19 fixed tetriminos.

And how do you know that people who play much Snake and Ladders do not talkn about different layouts, different dices and so on.

The trype of dice, the type of layout, how many squares, the length of the snakes and the ladders and everything else also affect the players
Post edited January 20, 2021 by amok