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Zimerius: After giving this whole post some more consideration, mainly because i do have some concerns with EPIC, namely the giveaways of games .I do would like to add that point as one of minor negatives. While I lack information about the whole makeup of the giveaway system. Is it entirely payed by EPIC could be a question with interesting outcomes for example. The whole way the giveaways are setup not to mention the type of games to be found in those offers seem to indicate that not all is what it seems over there by, with EPIC games
One possible concern could be giving away all those games for free, attracting new users, building consumer base, and then introducing some sort of "pay to play" wall, transforming Epic Games Store into "members only" service for monthly fee of, say, 3,99 euros/dollars to be able to access "free" games in your library.
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BlueMooner: Harvey Dent, can we trust him?
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amok: i believe in harvey dent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzZNWqUJuA4
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ChinaGovtIsFascist: Heck no. Just look at their track record. They weaponize the underage kids of the Fortnite community to try to win frivolous lawsuits
And other companies and even the government has done that. Remember the 'babies in incubators' that was a huge lie but they pushed it anyways to get wars started?

Does that make them possibly less evil or a corporation? No. But there are bigger evils than Epic Games.

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myconv: So I absolutely don't get why a bunch of people down-voted my thread. I don't know exact numbers but I see my OP is "low rated" and I have lost a significant number of rep points, what the hell's up with that?
You'll eventually step on someone's toes and get their ire, and every post you do, or every post in the thread will be downvoted and there's nothing you can do. Besides rep isn't really worth anything, and seems to be abused more than used properly.
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krakataul: One possible concern could be giving away all those games for free, attracting new users, building consumer base, and then introducing some sort of "pay to play" wall, transforming Epic Games Store into "members only" service for monthly fee of, say, 3,99 euros/dollars to be able to access "free" games in your library.
Possible, but somehow i don't see that working legally, nor overall.

Consider you get a million people, teenagers and adults who don't have money and get free games. Then you put in a charge, and they... just stop using your service (it's not like they have money), or fill your mailbox and other things with complaints so much so that the service goes down, and even do DOS attacks on Epic because of it. Yeah i see that happening.
Post edited January 03, 2021 by rtcvb32
low rated
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ChinaGovtIsFascist: Heck no. Just look at their track record. They weaponize the underage kids of the Fortnite community to try to win frivolous lawsuits
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rtcvb32: And other companies and even the government has done that. Remember the 'babies in incubators' that was a huge lie but they pushed it anyways to get wars started?

Does that make them possibly less evil or a corporation? No. But there are bigger evils than Epic Games.
Are you saying you trust "evils?" I know I don't. And I think it's safe to say Epic is worse than the average gaming company - by a large margin, and at least on-par with all the biggest evils in this industry like EA or Ubisoft. And for a gaming company, the freefortnite campaign is still very UNUSUALLY evil in nature. There are a lot of companies in the industry that have never even done anything remotely close to that obvious breach of ethics.
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ChinaGovtIsFascist: Are you saying you trust "evils?" I know I don't.
That isn't the right question. The right question, is do you have a choice if you can trust any of these 'evils'.

Pharmaceutical companies are undeniably evil (and most are/were in china). Walmart is undeniably evil. Disney is undeniably evil. Most of the corrupt politicians and oathbreaking cops are undeniably evil. Google and apple are undeniably evil. Facebook is undeniably evil. Even Monsanto, Bayer, Amazon, and IBM also have shown to be undeniably evil. Microsoft is evil, Activision is evil, EA is evil...

Do you plan to avoid all evils in the world? A worthy goal. But right now that is unavoidable, 95% of your relied on technology is made in china. Evil as they are, they still serve certain functions that we need in a society to work. Though I'd rather see them ripped out at the core and replaced with something else, but in our world they will eventually become corrupt again, because people can be corrupted.

I suppose the law of physics is more apt. "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction", so i wonder if Disney a huge evil company it is falls, i wonder how many smaller uncorrupt companies will take it's place? How many career politicians replaced by fresh blood. How many pharmaceutical companies replaced by natural homeopathic small businesses?
Post edited January 03, 2021 by rtcvb32
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ChinaGovtIsFascist: Are you saying you trust "evils?" I know I don't.
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rtcvb32: That isn't the right question. The right question, is do you have a choice if you can trust any of these 'evils'.

Pharmaceutical companies are undeniably evil (and most are/were in china). Walmart is undeniably evil. Disney is undeniably evil. Most of the corrupt politicians and oathbreaking cops are undeniably evil. Google and apple are undeniably evil. Facebook is undeniably evil. Even Monsanto, Bayer, Amazon, and IBM also have shown to be undeniably evil. Microsoft is evil, Activision is evil, EA is evil...

Do you plan to avoid all evils in the world? A worthy goal. But right now that is unavoidable, 95% of your relied on technology is made in china. Evil as they are, they still serve certain functions that we need in a society to work. Though I'd rather see them ripped out at the core and replaced with something else, but in our world they will eventually become corrupt again, because people can be corrupted.

I suppose the law of physics is more apt. "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction", so i wonder if Disney a huge evil company it is falls, i wonder how many smaller uncorrupt companies will take it's place? How many career politicians replaced by fresh blood. How many pharmaceutical companies replaced by natural homeopathic small businesses?
This may come as a surprise to you... but yes, I do avoid almost all of those. OTC only, and only when needed. There are other stores than Amazon and Walmart, at least for now, and I explicitly divert as much of my buying as possible to smaller, less corrupt businesses. And entertainment like Disney? I haven't given them a dime or much attention in over a decade - there are only 3 Star Wars movies as far as I'm concerned and there are no official remasters of them that I will accept. Same with EA, Actibliz, Ubisoft... the last time I gave money to epic was I think UT99. The last time I gave money to actibliz was War3 FT... the original version... not War3refunded. Social media? Despise it. Honestly I encourage everyone to delete or at least forget about their facebook/twitter/etc accounts - they're extremely toxic and they get worse every day through the very policies that are supposed to "reduce toxicity" because the favoritism involved only drives those not punished to greater feats of toxicity.

Having strong ethics comes at a cost, but trust me, it is possible, and it is worth it. It's honestly rather satisfying every time I see EA has ripped people off yet again (come on, you all have to see it coming by now) and I know I'm one of the ones who has actually consistently boycotted them instead of giving in to peer pressure, hype or false hopes.

Nobody's perfect, but you can at least avoid the worst ones and support those who keep their noses cleaner instead. The worst corruption thrives on tolerance... and can be rooted out by sufficiently widespread and consistent rejection.
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rtcvb32: That isn't the right question. The right question, is do you have a choice if you can trust any of these 'evils'.

Pharmaceutical companies are undeniably evil (and most are/were in china). Walmart is undeniably evil. Disney is undeniably evil. Most of the corrupt politicians and oathbreaking cops are undeniably evil. Google and apple are undeniably evil. Facebook is undeniably evil. Even Monsanto, Bayer, Amazon, and IBM also have shown to be undeniably evil. Microsoft is evil, Activision is evil, EA is evil...

Do you plan to avoid all evils in the world? A worthy goal. But right now that is unavoidable, 95% of your relied on technology is made in china. Evil as they are, they still serve certain functions that we need in a society to work. Though I'd rather see them ripped out at the core and replaced with something else, but in our world they will eventually become corrupt again, because people can be corrupted.

I suppose the law of physics is more apt. "For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction", so i wonder if Disney a huge evil company it is falls, i wonder how many smaller uncorrupt companies will take it's place? How many career politicians replaced by fresh blood. How many pharmaceutical companies replaced by natural homeopathic small businesses?
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ChinaGovtIsFascist: This may come as a surprise to you... but yes, I do avoid almost all of those. OTC only, and only when needed. There are other stores than Amazon and Walmart, at least for now, and I explicitly divert as much of my buying as possible to smaller, less corrupt businesses. And entertainment like Disney? I haven't given them a dime or much attention in over a decade - there are only 3 Star Wars movies as far as I'm concerned and there are no official remasters of them that I will accept. Same with EA, Actibliz, Ubisoft... the last time I gave money to epic was I think UT99. The last time I gave money to actibliz was War3 FT... the original version... not War3refunded. Social media? Despise it. Honestly I encourage everyone to delete or at least forget about their facebook/twitter/etc accounts - they're extremely toxic and they get worse every day through the very policies that are supposed to "reduce toxicity" because the favoritism involved only drives those not punished to greater feats of toxicity.

Having strong ethics comes at a cost, but trust me, it is possible, and it is worth it. It's honestly rather satisfying every time I see EA has ripped people off yet again (come on, you all have to see it coming by now) and I know I'm one of the ones who has actually consistently boycotted them instead of giving in to peer pressure, hype or false hopes.

Nobody's perfect, but you can at least avoid the worst ones and support those who keep their noses cleaner instead. The worst corruption thrives on tolerance... and can be rooted out by sufficiently widespread and consistent rejection.
Well said. There are always alternatives if one is willing to look.
Physically, maybe not always, but digitally? Hell yeah.
https://alternativeto.net/

Most people are apathetic and only interested in personal convenience though.
They'll maybe complain a bit, then go back to doing the same thing as always.
It's despairingly tragic.
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ChinaGovtIsFascist: There are other stores than Amazon and Walmart, at least for now, and I explicitly divert as much of my buying as possible to smaller, less corrupt businesses.
I do commend you then. Personally i try to buy from NewEgg vs using Amazon; However they (Amazon, Walmart, NewEgg, etc) still get their parts from Communist China (or the manufacturers of cards/components like video cards, etc). The bigger evils are almost impossible to avoid, though they are second hand in that way.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: […] If EGS had spyware and/or malware in the way how the OP is suggesting it might, then it would have been discovered eons ago and there would have been a huge media storm about it.
[…]
I can think of two examples that contradict your premise and ought to dent your confidence: the earlier (2G) digital telephony encryption (which was poorly implemented) was cracked about twenty years before the fact was revealed (August 2009).

[The Chaos Computer Club has told the FT that […] governments, and criminals, are already using the technique which can break the encryption used to protect 2G GSM calls in near-real time using existing systems. […]
And the encryption that was used to protect all online purchases (though that was announced shortly after it had been fixed to minimize harm both real and perceived) about the same time.

[T]here are two kinds of companies. Those that have been hacked and those that don’t know yet that they’ve been hacked.
James Comey

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rtcvb32: […] Pharmaceutical companies are undeniably evil (and most are/were in china). Walmart is undeniably evil. Disney is undeniably evil. Most of the corrupt politicians and oathbreaking cops are undeniably evil. Google and apple are undeniably evil. Facebook is undeniably evil. Even Monsanto, Bayer, Amazon, and IBM also have shown to be undeniably evil. Microsoft is evil, Activision is evil, EA is evil...
[…]
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ChinaGovtIsFascist: This may come as a surprise to you... but yes, I do avoid almost all of those. […] Despise [all of them]. Honestly I encourage everyone to delete or at least forget about their facebook/twitter/etc accounts - they're extremely toxic and they get worse every day through the very policies that are supposed to "reduce toxicity" because the favoritism involved only drives those not punished to greater feats of toxicity.

Having strong ethics comes at a cost, but trust me, it is possible, and it is worth it. […] Nobody's perfect, but you can at least avoid the worst ones and support those who keep their noses cleaner instead. The worst corruption thrives on tolerance... and can be rooted out by sufficiently widespread and consistent rejection.
IBM is more than a century old; they were certainly very naughty back in the 70s (before M$ they were the target of antitrust legal action from the US Fed) but they are certainly not "evil" now.
They act and promote responsible values.
IBM Chairwoman, President, and CEO Rometty stressed the importance of trust @ the Wold Economic Forum, 2020.

IBM CEO Ginni Rometty says trust is the ‘defining issue of our time’
source
The 4 Principles of Trust & Transparency (established by IBM in 2013)
1. AI will augment [n.b., not replace] human intelligence.
2. Data privacy & ownership will be protected.*
3. Technology must be transparent & explainable.
4. These principles must be supported by regular audits.
source

* This digital capitalism builds upon John Locke (1690), Second Treatise on Government, Part IX §124, & XI §§134&138.

IX Of the Ends of Political Society & Government
[…]
§124: The great and chief end, therefore, of men's uniting into commonwealths, and putting themselves under government, is the preservation of their property. […]
[…]

XI Of the Extent of Legislative Power
§134: THE great end of men's entering into society, being the enjoyment of their properties in peace and safety, and the great instrument and means of that being the laws established in that society; the first and fundamental positive law of all commonwealths is the establishing of the legislative power; as the first and fundamental natural law, which is to govern even the legislative itself, is the preservation of the society, and (as far as will consist with the public good) of every person in it. […]
[…]
§138: Thirdly, The supreme power cannot take from any man any part of his property without his own consent: for the preservation of property being the end of government, and that for which men enter into society, it necessarily supposes and requires, that the people should have property, without which they must be supposed to lose that, by entering into society, which was the end for which they entered into it; too gross an absurdity for any man to own.
Men therefore in society having property, they have such a right to the goods, which by the law of the community are their's, [sic] that no body hath a right to take their substance or any part of it from them, without their own consent: without this they have no property at all; for I have truly no property in that, which another can by right take from me, when he pleases, against my consent. Hence it is a mistake to think, that the supreme or legislative power of any commonwealth, can do what it will, and dispose of the estates of the subject arbitrarily, or take any part of them at pleasure.
This is not much to be feared in governments where the legislative consists, wholly or in part, in assemblies which are variable, whose members, upon the dissolution of the assembly, are subjects under the common laws of their country, equally with the rest. But in governments, where the legislative is in one lasting assembly always in being, or in one man, as in absolute monarchies, there is danger still, that they will think themselves to have a distinct interest from the rest of the community; and so will be apt to increase their own riches and power, by taking what they think fit from the people: for a man's property is not at all secure, tho' there be good and equitable laws to set the bounds of it between him and his fellow subjects, if he who commands those subjects have power to take from any private man, what part he pleases of his property, and use and dispose of it as he thinks good.
Also, in general, just because a company is directed by evil people that doesn't mean everyone in the company is evil. I speak from direct experience. ;)

edit: embedded link syntax
Post edited January 04, 2021 by scientiae
to be very honest you cant never trust any company after all they only after one thing.
YOUR MONEY

and guess what they do anything to obtain it even if they can sell your personal data.
so don't ever put trust in a company better put your trust in faith or something
About as far as you can throw them.
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myconv: ...
Well, Epic is a business. So no, you can't trust them. They will always do what they think is best for their profit. Just like GOG or any other business that has grown beyond a certain point.

Yes, idealistic companies foundet to support a goal that the founder is willing to fight for exsit. But those are naturally small and stay small-ish because growth isn't their prime goal. GOG may or may not have been an idealisitc company once. Maybe they once were serious about it, maybe they just pretended to fight the 'good fight'. But no matter. GOG definitely has grown into a normal, solely profit oriented business and Epic never was anything else.

Secondly, 40% of Epic are owned by Tencent - i.e. the Chinese government. So all your data will be evaluated in China for whatever purpose. I don't know how interesting you personally are for the Chinese government, but in any case, their involvement is there. So Epic doubly can't be trusted.

Combined with the acquisition by Tencent came also the change in direction towards 'Games as a service', that Epic proclaimed as their goal. So, if you care about regular old single-player games, you have a third reason not to trust Epic. Because in the long run they want to abolish the classical release mode of games and reduce everything to streaming that they have 100% control over.
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Abishia: to be very honest you cant never trust any company after all they only after one thing.
YOUR MONEY

and guess what they do anything to obtain it even if they can sell your personal data.
so don't ever put trust in a company better put your trust in faith or something
what personal data?
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Abishia: to be very honest you cant never trust any company after all they only after one thing.
YOUR MONEY

and guess what they do anything to obtain it even if they can sell your personal data.
so don't ever put trust in a company better put your trust in faith or something
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Orkhepaj: what personal data?
personal data that they can directly link towards you

example

they know your name, address phone number and Email they tag it to a ID then they can analyses what kind of personal type you are by seeing your online gaming (if you are RPG fan you likely share more common ground then someone that play's shooters) this information is shared amounts 3e party's (sold data) which they can refine better understanding of your ID and have better commercial tags personalized.
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Lifthrasil: [...]
Secondly, 40% of Epic are owned by Tencent - i.e. the Chinese government. So all your data will be evaluated in China for whatever purpose. I don't know how interesting you personally are for the Chinese government, but in any case, their involvement is there. So Epic doubly can't be trusted.
[...]
and almost 5% of CD Project Red's shares are held by Nationale-Nederlanden, so I guess all your data is evaluated by the Dutch government. Are you interested in the Dutch government?

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Orkhepaj: what personal data?
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Abishia: personal data that they can directly link towards you

example

they know your name, address phone number and Email they tag it to a ID then they can analyses what kind of personal type you are by seeing your online gaming (if you are RPG fan you likely share more common ground then someone that play's shooters) this information is shared amounts 3e party's (sold data) which they can refine better understanding of your ID and have better commercial tags personalized.
Yes, the Chinese will get world domination if they know that I like to play FPS and RPG games. Is it treason if I write my preference her in this forum? They can then track my preference from my username / avatar or hack gOg. They will then also find the very valuble information that I also like retro games, and we all know how dangerous that can be.

edit: by the way, there was the same discussion on Steam, the only problem is that all Steam ID's are public information, and the same with gOg profiles. For example, I can see that the user Abishia has played x4: Foundtions for 134 hours. Think about what the Chinese can do with that information!
Post edited January 04, 2021 by amok