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I'm doing some rereading right now.

I have a question about end of RVS:
Is it always 3 votes (or more) with 2 mafia?
How else would one find out a newbies reaction if noone votes them in the timeframe of RVS?

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Probably stupid sidequestion:
Potential PMs to a player about anything in the gamethread (regardless of topic) stated by this player probably best for after the game?

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Back to trying to catch my stray thoughts.
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FlockeSchnee: I have a question about end of RVS:
Is it always 3 votes (or more) with 2 mafia?
Nah. It is over when it's over. When the votes becomes serious.


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FlockeSchnee: Probably stupid sidequestion:
Potential PMs to a player about anything in the gamethread (regardless of topic) stated by this player probably best for after the game?
If it's about something in this thread, even if not game related but something like a RL issue someone mentioned, then it's better to wait after game. You can PM the mod with the message you want to send and check with him.
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my name is capitayn catte: Hey guys, I'm back-ish. Not caught up on the last couple of days' posts but will as time permits (at work right now).
Welcome back.

One question: did your RL trouble already start at the beginning of the game? Or was your assumption that Joe plays just regular inattentiveness? There are differing opinions on whether such an inattentiveness would be suspicious or a town tell or NAI, but it is odd in any case that you missed the player list in the OP.
(The most irritating thing for me right now is, that to me it seems like I posted some of the things I posted already. Which I didn't.)

It might be a few separate posts or not.

Lift votes ZFR (post10)
Pooka random-org-votes ZFR (post30)
I did so too in post19 too, though

Pooka unvotes ZFR and then random-org-votes nmillar in post 35
Lift unvotes ZFR in post39 and votes nmillar in post43

Mafia wouldn't try to "test the waters" like this, would they?
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FlockeSchnee: (The most irritating thing for me right now is, that to me it seems like I posted some of the things I posted already. Which I didn't.)

It might be a few separate posts or not.

Lift votes ZFR (post10)
Pooka random-org-votes ZFR (post30)
I did so too in post19 too, though

Pooka unvotes ZFR and then random-org-votes nmillar in post 35
Lift unvotes ZFR in post39 and votes nmillar in post43

Mafia wouldn't try to "test the waters" like this, would they?
Fun observation and I like that you found it, but my involvement in these voting patterns are coincidental.

You also found that voting pattern in an earlier game but with trent involved, right? And we all rallied to get trent lynched, and we promptly lost one Townie. Plus, even if Lift and I were Mafia, we have access to an always-online nightchat until the hidden innocent is either killed or revealed, so it wouldn't make sense to "test the waters" using awfully obvious vote patterns that can be immediately deduced in a "vote movements" post instead of something more refined and less obvious (initials, acronyms, etc).
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Microfish_1: nope, not Ideas Mr. Moder... you aren't mod anymore? :O
Life happened. I didn't have enough time to do everything, so I resigned as a mod.

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Microfish_1: How would you as town know if they were scum hunting or faking it?
You have grasped the core of the problem. :)

I'm not likely to leave scum alive precisely because of that issue, but if I had a way to confirm they were scum hunting for real, then I'm willing to listen (for that matter, I might listen anyway because what they choose to say or NOT say may help find their partners). We had a game some time back (one of the System Shock flavour ones, I believe) that had two different scum factions, and town had to figure out which scum to kill to keep either of their teams from winning. Part of that was deciding how much to trust the scum that had just been outed.

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Microfish_1: How accurate is your gut, historically?
It's done pretty alright in my last one or two games. Can't say much for my record before that, though.

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GymHenson: That aside, a bit of musing and a question: if there were two scum factions in a game(i mean in general) and they didn't know each others members, then they would be somewhat blind in a way, wouldn't they?
Perhaps, depending on the setup. But that isn't what we have here, is it?

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nmillar: Vote ZFR
Why are you voting ZFR?

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FlockeSchnee: I have a question about end of RVS:
Is it always 3 votes (or more) with 2 mafia?
How else would one find out a newbies reaction if noone votes them in the timeframe of RVS?
Typically RVS votes are not serious, not intended to be taken seriously, and are usually based on silly logic.

As an example, whatever you may currently think of my alignment, pretend I'm town for a moment and look at my first vote in this game. I voted Catte because "I'm pretty sure he's a killer". Before that post no player has said anything at all, so there is no possible way for town!me to have any clue who is scum. Same with the votes based on a number from random.org; such a vote has no reasoning behind it. Scum might try to push a wagon while pretending to be RVS of course, so you can still consider whether a player's rvs vote is indeed just rvs.

RVS votes might survive having a second vote jump on the wagon, but 3 votes is when a wagon starts to become serious and RVS votes tend to abandon it (regardless of game size). People may indicate when they've stopped RVS voting and are voting more seriously. Nothing is set in stone, of course.

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FlockeSchnee: Probably stupid sidequestion:
Potential PMs to a player about anything in the gamethread (regardless of topic) stated by this player probably best for after the game?
Rule of thumb: While the game is running, do not communicate anything about the game outside of the game thread unless the mod has explicitly given you permission and told you who, what, and how (ex. scum chatting in a private scum thread). The mod(s) are the one exception to the rule; feel free to ask them questions, though they might not answer them.

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FlockeSchnee: Mafia wouldn't try to "test the waters" like this, would they?
Very little is set in stone. Welcome to Forum Mafia. :)
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Microfish_1: How accurate is your gut, historically?
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Bookwyrm627: It's done pretty alright in my last one or two games.
Ummmm...

Last game you were Mafia so your gut didn't have much to say on who scum is. The one before it, your gut said flub, and by your own admission, it got Town screwed.
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Bookwyrm627: It's done pretty alright in my last one or two games.
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ZFR: Ummmm...

Last game you were Mafia so your gut didn't have much to say on who scum is. The one before it, your gut said flub, and by your own admission, it got Town screwed.
*shrug* I had Pooka nailed down, and I had it down to Flub or Dedo. It's a work in progress. :D
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FlockeSchnee: Mafia wouldn't try to "test the waters" like this, would they?
A couple of times I tried jumping around wagons to test people, it only got me lynched eventually (wasn't scum). Actually the only game I've been scum was my first game and we got lucky :)
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Lifthrasil: I am very sorry to read that. Cats are wonderful family members and I can imagine that you miss her very much.

However, as sorry as I am, I won't remove my vote. Yes, useless posts are your forte. But not checking who is actually playing is ... lackluster. And that was before the cat emergency. I took your vote on Joe as just another joke. But in post 91 you admit, that you actually thought that Joe was playing. Meaning, that you never read the OP where all the players are listed. So for now my vote stays on you.
Yeah, we're all devastated. She wasn't especially old so it was quite shock and none of us were emotionally prepared in the way we might have been if she was elderly.

And yes, me thinking Joe was playing had nothing to do with anything real life. I did read some of the OP, I just didn't pay attention to the player list. I usually don't, because I'll already be aware of who is playing from following the sign up thread. The difference here is the long time span between the sign ups and the game starting.

Basically I don't normally need to pay much attention to the player list - I just know who's playing. That's obviously bitten me in the arse here.

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GymHenson: To Nmillar and ALL others: Didn't want to bring this into the game, as I sometimes like to keep personal stuff to myself, but.....recently a family member was hospitalized(not Covid). At first they were just under the weather, but that alone was a distraction and made me a bit stressed/upset & put me in a bit of a funk. Now they are in the hospital, and besides worrying about them I have more things to do around the house to keep everything in order.

I will still be playing the game, though(no need for a break on my end)....as the game(and other things like gaming) helps take my mind off of things a bit more.
I'm really sorry to hear that. I wish you and them the best and hope they make a speedy recovery.

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my name is capitayn catte: Hey guys, I'm back-ish. Not caught up on the last couple of days' posts but will as time permits (at work right now).
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Lifthrasil: Welcome back.

One question: did your RL trouble already start at the beginning of the game? Or was your assumption that Joe plays just regular inattentiveness? There are differing opinions on whether such an inattentiveness would be suspicious or a town tell or NAI, but it is odd in any case that you missed the player list in the OP.
See above. No, it all happened very suddenly - she didn't seem sick until saturday night and went downhill very fast. Also see above for an explanation.

I think it's NAI (I'm not sure it could be a town tell), but the fact you jumped on this has you leaning town in my eyes. I don't think scum-Lift would try and start a wagon based on something so (IMO) tenuous and it's much more likely town-Lift is just being diligent.


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Current gut feelings:

Lift - townish feeling - see above
Flocke - townish feeling

Nmillar - hmmmmm - Just applying pressure or trying to play the GH and ZFR wagons against each other?
Micro - active - lots of posting but hard to get a read on
ZFR - interesting change in tack on GH. Not sure he'd willingly draw so much attention if scum?

I need to go through some earlier posts again.
@Catte: Sorry to hear about your cat. They are are deadly little fuzzballs. But they're worth it. Our cats grew old and then just didn't come home anymore. Had to put my dog to sleep though, it's hard.

@Gym: Hope they get better soon.

Thanks for the answers so far.

Whatever mojo was going on there occasionally is currently absent. I will take another look tomorrow with a fresh head and a back-to-the-basics approach.
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ZFR: Last game you were Mafia so your gut didn't have much to say on who scum is. The one before it, your gut said flub, and by your own admission, it got Town screwed.
I remember that game. Good times. High five, Pookina!

Ahem... Moving on.
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Bookwyrm627: Why are you voting ZFR?
The whole GH vs ZFR thing. I found it odd that ZFR hadn't garnered any votes despite some people raising their suspicions.
Allright. I am actually content with Catte's answer. Feels genuine.

unvote Catte

But I have no clue to whom I should move my vote. GH still has that 'bit by bit' answering thing going against him. But he explained that as well in a way that fits his usual MO. So I don't really have a strong case against him. ZFR is still quite Towny. So I will not vote him. I'll have to re-read, when Today's conference is over.
EBWOB post176:
@Catte: Sorry to hear about your cat. They are are deadly little fuzzballs. But they're worth it. <- Those are related.
This below is NOT!
Our cats grew old and then just didn't come home anymore.
Had to put my dog to sleep though, it's hard.


I can't do this.
I asked dedo for a replacement, but I will still take another look and try and wait for the replacement.