(@OP: No votes here)
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Btw a note/question to all players: It has been over 16 hours and Pookina has their vote still on me......if they are really town(and as such not know my alignment), do y'all think they'd be willing to risk the game and keep their vote on me for this long?

Also imo, the most likely way a town me could've survived this long(with several reporting in already) without a quickhammer is if one scum was already on my wagon.
(yes, not everyone has been on yet....which is partly why i'm holding my vote...to test theories of mine and etc)

Lastly, ask yourselves if a town player (even me) would be so "dumb" to self vote and bring themselves into quickhammer range during mylo if they weren't near certain they were in no danger of said scum quickhammer?

As such, I propose we NL for D4 and then think about a Pookina Lynch for d5. What do y'all think?

Yes, this is sensible.

That's all well and good, but from an outside perspective everything you're saying about Pookina could be said of you. Maybe you are the scum on your wagon? It doesn't help resolve the situation for the rest of us even if we accept your premise that one of the two of you is scum.

Yes, this was a questionable move on Pookina's part considering the situation we're in, but then the same could be said of self-voting.

You might be right, but as above - if one of you is scum this doesn't help us to know which.

I'd urge you to hurry, just in case you're both town.

Hmm, ok?

Nope, I just really thought that it would be a complete waste for the IC to claim too early.

I didn't forget; in fact I said that in #708.
Let me make it clearer. First of all, let's just not bother with the scenarios where the first person we choose to lynch, be it on D4 or D5, happens to be town. In any of those situations the game will be lost no matter what.

So concentrating on the remaining possibilities, we might
a) NoLynch toDay, enter D5 in a 3x2 situation, and lynch a mafioso toMorrow; or
b) Lynch a mafioso toDay and enter D5 with 3x1

But trying to lynch someone when you're 3 versus 1 is a problem. All three townies have to agree on who is the mafioso or there won't be a majority and thus no lynch. (The mafioso won't self-lynch in a game they are close to winning.)
In that situation it is recommended to go for a NL because it's easier for one townie out of three to get it wrong than one out of two. Also, if I happen to suspect e.g. Joe and were to vote Joe but we decide to NL and Joe is the NK, the smaller cast of players ends up giving me a higher chance to actually find the scum Zeogold. So we have 2 good reasons to force the number of players back to an odd number.

So here we are with two possibilities: lynch someone toDay and hope to have a chance to NL toMorrow or NL toDay and hope that our pick toMorrow is scum. No two ways about it.

See above. And, sorry to burst your bubble mate but... that number of NoLynches was "settled" to go up to three when the second NL happened and put our numbers back to an even number.
Scum might decide not to kill anyone the Night we NL indeed, but from what I read in MU and MafiaScum let's just say it is somewhat frowned upon, because prolonging the game unnecessarily is quite the dick move. Winning by boring every player out of the game? Who would want to play with them again? And if it happens they can't blame Town for it – Town didn't choose to prolong the number of Days. Only scum did.
You have a good point about the night chat, however.

Well, you can save some time by checking all the D1 and D2 votes on my post #633

Oh. Of course. Let me see. More than you? Sure.
Your self-vote didn't make it any less likely that you're scum. It only made it clear that there is at least one scum in this wagon. Otherwise scum would have piled their two votes by now.

So 3 possibilities arise:
1) scum!Pooka and scum!GH . I find this unlikely, but if we lynch one of you and get a scum flip I will give it some consideration just as I will consider a scenario with Catte and Trent as the 2nd scum.
2) scum!GH and town!Pooka and
3) scum!Pooka and town!GH

Out of the last two I find it hard to believe you're Town to Pooka's scum.

EBWOP: just as I will consider scenarios with Catte, Trent and Micro as the 2nd scum.

God, with these absences Micro is nigh invisible. I hope he isn't scum or he would be win by default because every townie would vote other townies by not even being aware he's still playing.

(Sorry Micro. At least you're more AFK for a good cause, what with your new job and all)

Replied to Catte and also a question/note to all at the bottom

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Which is why that is the route I plan to take today.....once I feel it's time to complete my little gambit/etc here anyways.

That is a possibility, I admit....but not true in this case(of course again, can't prove i'm town so take that fwiw).

It is more to help me figure out if my feeling on Pookina is right or not, and also to (in a roundabout way, through a risky maneuver) help me do my best to help town(in part by not letting the scum team get an easy lynch on "suspect often by default GH").

Questions: Ask yourself.....who is more likely to take such a level of risk as town....me or Pookina?

Now me....I feel most know that i'm more than willing to take such risks(to help town win, etc) as town....but can you say the same for them?

Also again: if Pookina is town and doesn't know anyone's alignment but their own, why haven't they removed their vote to be on the safe side?

(I am confident that Pookina is scum and i'm in no danger of being quickvoted.....also I tend to do these sorts of risky plays sometimes)

As I said, I am more or less near 100% certain one scum is on my wagon(and I don't mean me) and i'm no danger of being quickvoted. Still, I will be removing my vote in short order(probably several hours from now, more or less)....just need to check something out(will explain this more after I remove my vote).

Fair enough and thanks for giving your reasoning behind what you said/did.


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Update: It's been near 20 hours and I haven't been quickvoted....seems odd doesn't it? Maybe I am scum and my partner is waiting for later to join in, or maybe i'm town like I said. Which do y'all think is more likely?

(@OP: no votes in this post either)
(also sorry for this format, I messed up a bracket....post bits above correspond to reply bits below by number)
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1. Agreed on NL for today(d4)....also I believe I got all your points above and feel I am in agreement.

2. True enough, but i'd think that not trying everything to help one's team win the game just so it would end quicker might be seen to be as dikkish.

3. Even considering you used to say(iirc) that it was hard to pin me down and that my actions were often NAI? What makes you so sure this game, and what makes my actions more scum indicative than prior games?

4. As snape would say: Ob-vi-ous-ly

A quick set of questions(and as I more or less asked Catte above) if you'd be so kind as to oblige me: you likely know i'd be willing to take such risks when town, but do you think a town!Pookina would be willing to risk being wrong on my alignment to where they let the vote count stand at quickvote range for over 20 hours?

Lastly, while we're here: If i'm scum who would you think is most likely to be my scum mate? And also if Pookina is scum, who do you think is most likely to be their scum mate?

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Pre-Post edit: I wonder where Micro is...hope he's okay.

Here's what I think, if you're Town then when you voted yourself you were doing us a disfavor. If you're scum when you voted yourself it was a very strange play to think it somehow would clear you. My conclusion is this, either way it was a bad play to do so and comes across as scummy. In no way would I vote for a third NL this game, and the fact that there has been two is so disappointing. So I would rather lose today than drag this game out for another 4 days or whatever.

Vote GymHenson

This vote is almost purely because GH voted himself with some other little inconsistent play from him with how he's voted. If this perhaps gets people for some odd reason to think I'm scum then lynch me so we can end this game today with Town losing. If you're Town GH then I'm disappointed in your play.

At this point if Pookina is scum then good on him and he's played it well.

I'd like to think I was taking a risk to ensure a town win and that scum didn't roll over me with an easy miclynch.

Very anti-town play, and also your post was what partly I was waiting for: I think I spotted the second scum

Unvote GymHenson

Sure you are, pal

Note to all town: note all the above in my post to Trent....also remember that Trent was the one who said NO SPEED VOTES, yet he now votes me? I don't buy it....at least not from a town!Trent.

Besides that, I don't believe a player like Trent would more or less throw a game away as town so readily.

Also remember how I said I was waiting on something else? Well that was a big part of it. I had a hunch Pookina's scum buddy would add their vote as the third vote on my wagon at some point to make sure it got through if need be.

(yes, there's a slim chance i'm wrong and Trent might be town, but my hunch says he's more likely scum...that slim chance, btw, is partly why I will more advocate for a Pookina lynch on D5[if I don't get the NK] than him)

(also Trent, if somehow ya truly do turn out to be town...sorry for making the game frustrating for ya)

No one's thrilled about it, but the second NL pretty much guaranteed a third at some point.

Look at it this way - we need to lynch correctly 2 times to win. There's no more room for mistakes.
We can do:

* 4 vs 2 now and 3 vs 1 tomorrow.

* 4 vs 2 now, NL tomorrow and then 2 vs 1 the next day, or

* NL now, 3 vs 2 tomorrow and then 2 vs 1 the next day.

Of those, the last option has the best odds.

I also feel like you're overstating the importance of the scumteam being "up to date". The sooner we NL, the less there is for them to be up to date on. Think about it this way - if we'd immediately begun this day by voting NL, there wouldn't be anything new for them to discuss and no advantage to be gained.

Well to a certain extent I agree... Pooka's haste to vote you is what has given me pause. I started the day fairly certain you were scum. I'm not exactly doubting that, but the possibility of Pooka being scum seems higher to me than when the day started.

Nothing about this situation makes either option more likely. I have no idea why you think this somehow suggest your innocence?
Woah there. If on the offchance GH is town, you're willing to throw the game to, what, make an example of him? Maybe you are scum, but it's not exacly AI for you to be pushy...
You accuse GH of doing us a "disfavor", but if you and GH both happen to be town then you're very much doing us a disservice too.

Yeah... that's a dangerous game you were playing there GH. You're right that Trent's direct contradiction of his own instruction is a big red flag.

Agreed

Also by keeping the day going longer they have more of a chance to try to subtly communicate via the thread, push a mislynch, or otherwise get us distracted/derailed/etc.

Fair enough, and sensible.

It was things like that....him voting when he did and after my play earlier...that threw up red flags. I mean there's a slight chance he might just be frustrated at my play(iirc he dislikes self voting, etc etc) and how the game has been going, but: doing all that for reasons like not wanting to have another NL and have the game drag on? Seems somewhat hard to believe.

Watch the clip at the end of post 721....it's not just there for fluff entertainment value....it had a point: that sometimes i'm willing to take a huge risk if I feel town is at a danger of losing and if I feel it'll help town win

(also: sometimes in a game if I feel the scum team is trying to use me or others for an easy win and/or if the game reaches a point with town in danger of losing, I will "rise to the task" as best I can to prevent that)

Pookina's vote after Trent's post threw up red flags, and them keeping their vote on me for so long after that only raised more in my eyes.....and then Trent (seemingly, there's a slim chance he could be town) takes the bait and votes me....as I felt the other scum likely would at some point to get my lynch through.

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That all said...I forgot to re-vote:

Vote NL

Addition to the post above: also I more or less try(key word) to save such risky ploys for when times seem desperate...and in this case we are at MYLO where one mislynch will lose us the game. As such, I felt more ok with using such a play, rather than say closer to the start of the game when town wasn't at much risk of losing.

the day started? I guess it did. Welp. I've caught up via skimming and (not to make joppo upset) will post that I am cogitating what I have read. I got a decent night's sleep for the first time in a while!

I had thought Pooka to be Lord Town Himself, but now I am unsure. I really really don't like the self vote because form my perspective it doesn't clear anything up. the only people who benefitted from it are a) GH (if he is scum, he can claim town points as he is doing, and if town, he can focus tighter on Pooka) b) Pooka (if town, this gives him more ammo to go after GH on) c) scum (if they are both town).

I ought to default to the mathematically correct NL, but NL again just seems so...boring. Gotta think more.

Would vote: NL or anyone except myself.

Bump for Joppo