There are many games, mostly RPGs (though there's a few other games that do this, like Secret of Mana, Timespinner, and Unepic), in which you have different skill levels that can be improved in some way. Typically, this is done either through skill points or by using the ability to improve it.

The question, then, is how the abilities should be grouped. In other words, if you use one ability, what other abilities should improve?

Some of the approaches I've seen here:
* Everything is separate (Final Fantasy 2. The Alliance Alive (with position levels), Etrian Odyssey series, Lords of Xulima)
* Closely related abilities grouped together (SaGa 3 DS, where each spell type has its level)
* Group by weapon type or school of magic (Wizardry 8, SaGa Frontier 2 (and maybe Romancing SaGa 2/3)
* Group by broad categories (Dungeon Master, which has 4 main class levels, and all spells fall into one of only 2 types; also see some of this in Avernum; for weapons you would typically have skills grouped by damage type, so no separation of long sword versus great sword for example, but bows would be different)

In particular, one factor is how finely grained the categories should be. For example, I believe Baldur's Gate 1 (classic) has one proficiency that covers all large swords, but Baldur's Gate 2 separates it into categories like long sword, bastard sword, and 2-handed sword. Also, the distinction as to whether, say, Cure 1 and Cure 2 should share the same skill level.

So, the question is, how should these different abilities be grouped, and how finely grained should the skill system be?

(For this question, I could also ask if it matters whether the game uses skill points or improve-by-use.)

Licence board/dress sphere/gain by equip.

Sorry, I just felt like placing out three diversely different systems to see how you'd break them down.

oh jesus

Um, this topic isn't about religion.

sadly it would be way better

I haven't played any game that uses license board (the FF12 demo doesn't count because you can't access the menu and therefore can't access the license board (or the gambit system, for that matter) or dress sphere, so I can't really comment on them.

For gain by equip, I can think of two different examples of this:
* Final Fantasy 9 (also FFTA), where it's only used for the learning of abilities and not leveling them up.
* SaGa 2 (and SaGa Frontier), where it primarily affects stats rather than skills. Then again, SaGa Frontier does have that one sword that gives its wielder the MillionDollars attack, which can do a lot of damage when used by a character with 99 STR (not hard to get) and CombatMastery, and even more if something like VictoryRune is used on the character. (Note: This only applies to robots and not other races.) No need yo be sorry; it's interesting to look at how drastically different system works.

(Also, imagine a game where you have some characters who gain ability through the license board, some who instead use dress spheres, and others who get all their stats and abilities from equipment.)

"Group by weapon type or school of magic" is the best for most situations. If it's too narrow, equipment rewards can become non-rewards.

Nevermind the brainless little troll.

I think grouping skills based on stats can work. Or based on class. I prefer 1 or the other.

Please do emulate FF10 and 10-2. I'm sure you can find cutscene skips by now for the original PS2 versions. The sphere grid, despite being a glorified giant skill tree actually feels pretty good in use, and the garment grid/dress sphere system also feels pretty good (if only that game had had another year of development polish to make it not have turned into "hold attack to win"). I think you'd feel enriched by it, even if it's not overall a good experience. You'll feel it in play better than watching videos could do.

Grouping skills based on stats is actually how the SaGa games that don't have weapon skills feel; this includes SaGa 1, SaGa 2, Romancing SaGa 1's remake (haven't played the original), and SaGa Frontier. Of course, this then leads to interesting cases, like whips in SaGa 2 that use STR but train AGI. (Of course, SaGa 2 suffers from the problem that AGI is more important that STR; high AGI lets you hit with melee weapons and do high damage with AGI-based melee weapons, while high STR doesn't help you hit with STR weapons, creating a problem where a character who uses only STR weapons is unable to hit enemies at all later in the game.)

SaGa 3 remake also feels this way, even if it does have weapon levels. (Original SaGa 3 doesn't, as stats tend not to be that important (and can't be controlled for most races); what matters more is the damage multipliers different races get with certain attacks.) It actually lacks one of the biggest issues I have with skill point issues, namely the limit on skill points that can be earned. To my understanding, it's possible for anyone to eventually learn every skill on the grid. (There's still the escalating AP requirements, but my understanding is that they eventually stop increasing.)

(It's too bad the postgame is so poorly designed that way too many of those skills are useless at that point; I can tell from videos as NSG videos are far more entertaining to watch than post-game boss videos.) So, you'd consider the weapon upgrades in Secret of Evermore to be non-rewards?

(In SoE, each of the three main weapon types gets an upgrade in each world, but different tiers of the same weapon do not share the same weapon level, so being good with the first spear won't help you with the second, for example. Also, each spell has its own separate level, even if one is meant to be an upgrade of another.)

The biggest limit is on lock sphere (and teleport sphere/etc) availability. While it's definitely possible to fill it all in, the player has to grind so much to get to that point. During normal play, you only get so many level 3 & 4 unlocks, or only a couple teleport spheres to use.