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dtgreene: I think QTE are appropriate if the game is designed around them, and if it's the primary point of the game. (I'm thinking something like Dragon's Lair.) This way, the QTEs don't get in the way of non-QTE gameplay.
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HappyPunkPotato: Yes, in that case I probably wouldn't be playing the game anyway. It's such a pain when they unexpectedly pounce on you and you miss it because you were relaxing during a cutscene.
Yeah, that`s a mechanic I hate too. You just watched a cutscene and all of sudden you have to throw away your blunt and your beer to rescue your character. Bad design!
Distinctly remember playing a game that sometimes used button QTEs and then the final boss had a weird circle thing pop up.

That was a joystick direction I was supposed to press.

On my keyboard.

I spent 20 minutes dying to that boss over and over.
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myconv: I don't know what you are talking about, Please give an example of "giving back what you've acquired".

What is a "map game" and what does it mean to "bounce off" it?
A mechanic where the player conquers or otherwise aqcuires territory or resources during 'hostilities', but upon the declaration of 'peace' the player is then forced to return those things because they did not explicitly declare they were intending to take them.
Like the entire concept of opportunism has been wilfully ignored.
The player put in the time and effort to attain those things, they belong to the player now. If the AI wants them back it can damn well come and take them back itself instead of having some 'magic' mechanic to do it for it automatically.
Completely unacceptable to waste the player's time like this imo.

Usually found in aforementioned 'map games' (so called because your goal is to 'paint' the map with your faction colour), a branch of the 4X strategy genre sometime referred to as 'grand strategy'.
Eg: Europa Universalis, Hearts of Iron, Stellaris

'Bouncing off' something means 'failed to capture your interest in any way'.
Like if you throw a ball at a wall, the wall will 'fail' to capture the ball and it will just... Bounce off.
The Spiderman QTE videos make me want to play that game. Though I get why those without warning would be very annoying, or where if you fail to do it right once, you're significantly set back. This could also be side to be a save issue, as auto saves before any unannounced QTE and ability to save at any point would solve those issues.

MareSerenintis, not played any of those games. What do you think of Stellaris overall?

I just got remembered of a save issue I find annoying but a majority of the games fan base seems to have no problem with, Terraria, It saves the stuff you put down, stuff on your character, but it does not save your position. You always appear at your spawn point when loading a game.

This has several consequences. First, it makes cheating your way out of any death situation simple enough, pause, save, reload. I'm told this is a "feature", this way a player can never get stuck. Well have a suicide respawn option then.

The other consequence is it makes exploring a pain in the ass. The only way to keep the progress of a long explore, is to set up a bed. But not every location can easily have a bed set in it, it can be quite a thing to set a bed up (I think you have to build a room etc. too which requires other basic items like 4 walls big enough, chair, table lamp? I forget, it's been awhile) If you got to suddenly need to run off, you probably don't want to feel obliged to set up a bed room right where you are or lose all your explore progress. And even if it's not sudden, having to build rooms all over the place as you explore is a pain (and dig them up afterwords or have more of your pack filled with this) it would also mess with the aesthetics of the wilderness I'm exploring, to me.

But when I brought this up on the Terraria forum, I got a fair bit of push-back from other players, which makes it seem unlikely that they'd address it if I'm the only one who has asked for it., What do you folks think?

Is this position save issue, still an issue in Terraria? As this single issue is the difference between me maybe buying the game, and not buying it.
Post edited January 07, 2021 by myconv
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myconv: I just got remembered of a save issue I find annoying but a majority of the games fan base seems to have no problem with, Terraria, It saves the stuff you put down, stuff on your character, but it does not save your position. You always appear at your spawn point when loading a game.

This has several consequences. First, it makes cheating your way out of any death situation simple enough, pause, save, reload. I'm told this is a "feature", this way a player can never get stuck. Well have a suicide respawn option then.
I don't really see this as cheating, since you still need to go back to where you were.

Also, what if you get stuck somewhere due to a bug in the game, or due to a level design flaw? (Particularly if there isn't any way to die.)

(Incidentally, I'm reminded of how, in the Mario Maker games, there's an option to start the entire level over, but no option to go back to the last checkpoint you hit. This means that, in case of a softlock, you either have to wait for time to run out or lose your checkpoint. Of course, troll levels then introduced the "anti-softlock", where it *is* possible to die before time runs out, but it either takes a while, is not easy, or both.)
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mqstout: 2: Long games with significant missable content. I don't have time to replay your long game. [Note, this doesn't apply to significant CHOICES in story direction/character development/class selection.]
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dtgreene: I would say, however, that this does apply to missable stats; if a game gives you stat boosts for having items (or other things) equipped at the time of level up, has a level cap (even if it's much higher than the expected endgame level), and does not have another way to permanently raise stats or a way to reset a character's level, then that's a problem.
Well, it's something I really have come to hate about JRPGs, but I guess that speaks to what you said about them in that other thread anyway. I can live with missing out on things in a good WRPG, like Arcanum, Fallout 1+2, Gothic, etc. but in JRPGs missing stuff just gives me a sense of incompleteness, rather than a unique path.

The level of optimization you can do in the PSX Final Fantasy games for example is just ridiculous, like guides on how to keep anyone but the main char on level 1 in FF9 so you can max stats with equipment bonus on level up later... related to the level-scaling stuff, it's also a reason I can't get back to FF8, knowing that the easiest way to play it is just to never level up.

FF12 was instantly dead to me when I found out that you spoil the best equipment by opening some random chest in the beginning, or that drops are randomized but depend on some internal cycle of the PS2 you can figure out.

Actually, put that on the list: randomization mechanics that give you a random but gameable outcome are a no-go for me (like rolling a dice on level up on how much HP you permanently get, which borderline forces you into save scumming, unless you are diehard into some purist RPG experience, although FF12 is worse, because you know how to get the best outcome but it is comically tedious).

Guess FF10 did slightly better, because you could still optimize that sphero-board (?) in the end, if you felt like it.

On the topic otherwise:

I absolutely hate respawning/infinite enemies in shooters. There always should be a finite number of enemies which you either kill or don't, but never just more enemies till you leave an area (with the rare except of some sort of special mission set up, where you get swarmed till you run or so).

Post edited January 07, 2021 by Robette
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dtgreene: what if you get stuck somewhere due to a bug in the game, or due to a level design flaw? (Particularly if there isn't any way to die.)
I mentioned this, a suicide option causing respawn. As Terraria players are fond of pointing out, there is lots of ways of teleporting in the game, including potions that bring you back to spawn points. One could carry such a potion on them and not have to worry about getting stuck and having to suicide and lose the stuff on you.
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dtgreene: what if you get stuck somewhere due to a bug in the game, or due to a level design flaw? (Particularly if there isn't any way to die.)
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myconv: I mentioned this, a suicide option causing respawn. As Terraria players are fond of pointing out, there is lots of ways of teleporting in the game, including potions that bring you back to spawn points. One could carry such a potion on them and not have to worry about getting stuck and having to suicide and lose the stuff on you.
Losing the stuff on you when you die is one of my most hated mechanics, actually.

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Robette: Actually, put that on the list: randomization mechanics that give you a random but gameable outcome are a no-go for me (like rolling a dice on level up on how much HP you permanently get, which borderline forces you into save scumming, unless you are diehard into some purist RPG experience, although FF12 is worse, because you know how to get the best outcome but it is comically tedious).
That's only a problem because there's a limit to how many times you can get that random permanent benefit.

In a game with SaGa-like growth, this is not an issue because, while HP growth is random, there's no arbitrary limit on how many HP you can get when you level up.

(I could point out one odd issue that SaGa 2 has; while there's no limit on how many HP gains you have, if you have at least 999 HP, you can't get any more HP. Hence, the way to get max possible HP is to get to 998 HP, then drink the potion that gives you 40 more. (With that said, in the Game Boy version, there's a bug that causes characters with 1024 or more HP to rarely gain stats, though for espers it has the side effect of making the character learn new skills extremely often (though note that espers are less likely to get this many HP). One way to avoid this problem is to opt-out of this mechanic entirely by playing a party of only Robots and Monsters; that also means you don't need to spend nearly as much time fighting extra encounters, as all you need is money for equipment (and there's plenty to find later on, anyway) and meat for monster transformation.)
Post edited January 07, 2021 by dtgreene
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Orkhepaj: btw Stellaris has food and you can set policies which result in more food consumed ,but more food production wont increase population faster.
I love gaming Stellaris's population growth mechanics. Nutritional Plentitude + Cyto-Revitalization Centers + Clone Vats + Fertile trait is insane, you will fill up your planets in no time.
Post edited January 07, 2021 by Crosmando
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Robette: I absolutely hate respawning/infinite enemies in shooters.
It's respawning enemies in any game for me. That's why I didn't bother buying Silent Hill 4 here despite really liking the series.

Respawning objects is a strange one too. Go to some crumbling building in Fallout 3 with a few super mutants and no humans for miles around. You can kill the super mutants and totally loot the building but if you go back in a few days there's always been someone there to put some paper weights and ashtrays into random containers.
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Robette: I absolutely hate respawning/infinite enemies in shooters.
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HappyPunkPotato: It's respawning enemies in any game for me. That's why I didn't bother buying Silent Hill 4 here despite really liking the series.

Respawning objects is a strange one too. Go to some crumbling building in Fallout 3 with a few super mutants and no humans for miles around. You can kill the super mutants and totally loot the building but if you go back in a few days there's always been someone there to put some paper weights and ashtrays into random containers.
Not a game mechanic strictly speaking but I agree. I wish destruction was more persistent in general, unless there's a good in-universe explanation.
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Robette: I absolutely hate respawning/infinite enemies in shooters.
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HappyPunkPotato: It's respawning enemies in any game for me. That's why I didn't bother buying Silent Hill 4 here despite really liking the series.
Without respawning enemies:
* How am I supposed to earn more XP, gold, and whatever else is acquired by killing enemies?
* How am I supposed to play around with my endgame character once all the enemies are dead?
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myconv: No saves for you!
Two versions of this. One where you can save anytime, but only when you quite. Found in many rogue-likes as a enforced difficulty. If you copy paste the save files to get around this, they judgmentally call it "save scumming". Look, it's my game I am playing by myself, who are you to look down on me because I want to revert to a earlier save and not have hours of work go down the drain. Just implement a Ironman mode that disallows saves or whatever, but FFS, also allow saves when we want through game menu for normal games.

The second version is games with short levels, Also notably found in other rogue-likes but not just those. The game typically remembers certain things you unlock each run but the actual level progression, well just don't start playing if you can't finish it or leave your system on wasting power if you suddenly have to stop and run. I think this is mostly because of programing laziness, they simply feel they can get away with not having a proper save system since the levels are short.

I seem to be mostly alone in my disdain in these game mechanisms, other fans of these genres seem to have accepted or come to appreciate these. The most likely exception seems to be more extreme level scaling. (as it comes in degrees) So anyone else feel as I do about these game mechanisms?
And who are you to self-righteously demand (quick)saving in every game? Now that we threw moral bullshit out of the way, let's get to the problem. As I see it, need for quicksaving is a sign of game being poorly balanced. Ideally, you could finish entire section/level in one try without having to resort to save scumming (not that I judge it). Yes, being able to save at any time is really nice and I think it's kinda needed in many genres such as Western RPG-s, city builders etc., but I think it also negatively affects some genres such as survival horror or Souls-likes.

For rougelikes, or to be more precise, roguelites specifically, inability to save is the main selling point of the genre. It's assumed that not every run will be successful and ability to save wouldn't help you much considering you are ultimately at the mercy of our Lord and savior RNGesus.
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Mafwek: save scumming (not that I judge it)
I'd argue that, by simply using that term, which has a negative connotation, you are judging it.
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Mafwek: save scumming (not that I judge it)
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dtgreene: I'd argue that, by simply using that term, which has a negative connotation, you are judging it.
Well that's the matter of perspective, and applying values to things which have none. One of the last games I finished in 2020 was TRON 2.0. I resorted to quite a lot to the use of quicksave and quickload (in other words, save scumming) in that game to finish it, but I still enjoyed it a lot in spite of it. It should be noted that in this particular case the need for quicksaving could be result of game being poorly balanced and/or me being bad at it, and I would be a hypocrite if a judge others for something I do myself.