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General discussionForum moderation: Rules, threads, all that jazz(39 posts)(39 posts)
(39 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 24, 2017
high rated
Hey everyone,

It seems that there is some confusion around what the rules are on this forum, how they're enforced, and how the forum is moderated, so I thought I'd just clear this up a bit.

We've had forum rules on GOG for a long time - if you need to refresh your memory, they're here: https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/212182929-What-are-the-house-rules-Code-of-Conduct-for-posting-on-the-website. These rules will possibly be undergoing some change in the near future, however, they are solid as they stand as of now, so please do follow them. If you have any questions or need any clarification, please let me know.

Remember that if you fail or intentionally choose to not adhere to those rules, this behaviour might result in a forum ban (after a warning, of course).

As for threads that are likely to cause uproar or are the kinds of threads that would, in the past, lead to many a forum rule being broken - those will be closely monitored, any posts breaking the forum rules will be removed - and their authors contacted. If the authors of those posts intentionally make themselves hard to get in touch with, the thread might be closed until those users have made contact themselves or responded to their warning(s).

By no means do I want to discourage discussions on those forums, but there are things that should and will not be tolerated, so please do take this into account while posting.

Thanks!

UPDATE: The new forum rules are now up - see here: https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/115001814049-Forum-Code-of-Conduct. Please familiarize yourself with them prior to posting! Thanks.
Post edited March 10, 2017 by fables22
Posted February 24, 2017
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moonshineshadow: Interesting. So you can actually do bans just for the forum.
Yes.
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227: 1/10, promised jazz was never delivered.

I don't think people are confused about the rules so much as how they're going to be enforced in the future. For example, if I hadn't included this paragraph relevant to what you wrote, would I receive a warning for not staying on topic? Then there's the obvious "don't spam or troll" parts of the rules, but what about trolling a serial spammer's topic out of frustration? How reasonable is a rule about searching before posting to avoid duplicate threads when the search function is so lackluster and seemingly random with what it dredges up?

Lots of gray area that could stand to be cleared up a bit.
There are a lot of grey areas, however, they will be explained in the new set of rules. In the meantime, we'll have to do with what we've got. I don't think not enforcing the rules because they're not comprehensive enough is the way to go about it.

I think there's a fine line between trolling and not staying on topic - that plus discussions will evolve so the topic might slowly change direction. That's all fine. For now, this will be dealt with on an ad hoc basis. Same goes for duplicate threads.
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Densetsu: I think that it would be good to rename the thread to make it clear from the title that moderation is now in place for GOG forums and make it at least a temporary sticky.

Other than that, all that jazz is inevitable on internet forums and as long as it is imposed to enhance user experience and not hinder it, I for one welcome it.
I agree with your second point & will make the thread sticky. I also welcome all that jazz that enhances user experience - in this case, it was mostly intended to cover all the questions I anticipated you guys might have.
Post edited February 24, 2017 by fables22
Posted February 24, 2017
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Johnathanamz: So gog.com will enforce rules now?

How I wished gog.com to stay unique forever and have a free place to talk on the forums.

I'm ok with banning those people spamming the 1-800 LOVE or whatever spams.

I guess I should be banned permanently now since I say a lot of crap on some topics.

You disappoint me gog.com.

Maybe it's time to take my money and look for another digital store selling 100% free Digital Rights Management (DRM) free PC versions of video games and that will never have any rules on their forums.

Except only banning scammers and those 1-800 LOVE spammers.
There's a fundamental difference between having a free place to talk and having a free place to share hate speech and fuel offensive, intimidating and discriminating attitudes. To you, this maybe added to the "uniqueness" of the forums. To others, this was the reason not to frequent the forums at all.
Posted February 24, 2017
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fables22: There's a fundamental difference between having a free place to talk and having a free place to share hate speech and fuel offensive, intimidating and discriminating attitudes. To you, this maybe added to the "uniqueness" of the forums. To others, this was the reason not to frequent the forums at all.
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Johnathanamz: Oh ok so hate speech is bannable?

I'm ok with that.

Will you guys work more harder to ban the 1-800 LOVE spammers? As well as the scammers?
Yes, that goes without saying.

EDIT: You-know-what :)
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Marioface5: Can we please make threads started by GOG staff stand out more? Threads like this one and the game removal warning threads would be far more visible if they had a blue font, or even just a blue icon like the newsposts do.

That was all I was going to say, but looking at the rules I actually have a question. Specifically, about this part:

Everyone should feel comfortable and therefore any language or content that is harassing, intimidating, threatening, discriminating, obscene, pornographic, sexually explicit or offensive in any other way will not be tolerated. This also includes links to such content;
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Marioface5: What about content from or directly related to games sold on GOG? I'm sure there are already games sold here (Witcher, Huniepop, Neptunia) that include content that could be in violation of this rule.

Overall, I'm honestly not a fan of this rule. It's good to forbid harassment, intimidation, and threats. The rest of it, I don't know. It's all very subjective, and like I said there are games already sold here that would violate the rule the way it's currently written.

My biggest concern is over the "offensive in any other way" bit. Who gets to decide what's offensive? Going out of your way to offend people for the sake of doing so is something I wouldn't condone, and I understand that being against the rules. But what about people who simply have beliefs and worldviews that others are offended by? Why should they be forbidden to express or discuss their views, just because they don't match popular opinion? Who's to say that popular opinion doesn't offend them? I'm trying to make my point without any examples because I know any real example would derail the thread immediately.
There's been a couple of threads with a discussions on this in the recent past - I've attempted to find out from the community itself what the rules should be, what can be deemed offensive, etc. In all honesty, I didn't think we were going to reach a conclusion and we did not. It's something that's massively subjective and any rules imposed will never please absolutely everyone - hence this is something that's going to be handle on an ad hoc basis, as far as possible.

I just hope that the majority of you agrees with me on that we do need some rules, otherwise this community will never grow into a healthier one.
Post edited February 24, 2017 by fables22
Posted February 24, 2017
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fables22: There's been a couple of threads with a discussions on this in the recent past - I've attempted to find out from the community itself what the rules should be, what can be deemed offensive, etc. In all honesty, I didn't think we were going to reach a conclusion and we did not. It's something that's massively subjective and any rules imposed will never please absolutely everyone - hence this is something that's going to be handle on an ad hoc basis, as far as possible.

I just hope that the majority of you agrees with me on that we do need some rules, otherwise this community will never grow into a healthier one.
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Marioface5: That's probably the best way to handle it. These sorts of things are never easy to define, and trying to make rigid rules would probably just make it worse.

I can't speak for everyone of course, but I completely agree that some rules are needed. Not sure how much they'll help, but hopefully they'll do some good. Personally, the main reason I don't bother too much with this place is all of the negativity. You can't really make a rule against that (especially on an official forum) so I'm not optimistic about things changing in that regard. It's just a bummer that the more excited I am about a release, the further I know I should stay from the thread for it.

EDIT: To be absolutely clear, I am not advocating for a rule against negativity even if one could be made. I think people should be able to voice their negative opinions and feelings, it just also makes the forum very unpleasant in a lot of ways.
Thanks for being understanding. I do, to some extent, believe that a good portion of the negativity stems from the fact that there's also quite a lot of toxicity, especially in certain threads - that's one thing I hope this can fix or at least improve as well. But I guess we'll see - it'll all come down to whether the users on here will be willing to be co-operative.
Posted February 24, 2017
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adaliabooks: Thanks fables, I for one really appreciate any effort to clean up the forums a bit.

It's just nice to see things finally moving and being updated when it comes to the forum too, and I'm fairly sure we have you to thank for that too.

Keep up the good work!
Thanks. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people won't agree with you on this but I'm genuinely acting in good faith and while I do realise some people might think forum moderation is unfair, I do honestly think it's needed. And, unfortunately to some, I'm actually in the position to enforce them. I will by no means abuse this, I hope that's clear.
Posted February 24, 2017
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fables22: I do, to some extent, believe that a good portion of the negativity stems from the fact that there's also quite a lot of toxicity, especially in certain threads - that's one thing I hope this can fix or at least improve as well. But I guess we'll see - it'll all come down to whether the users on here will be willing to be co-operative.
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Marioface5: That's an interesting point. I know I've seen some people get at each other in completely normal threads because of views expressed in controversial ones. Getting rid of that certainly can't hurt.

Here's a question: Would posting the same thing in a lot of threads be considered spam? For example, it gets tiring seeing the same people in every applicable release thread post about how they won't buy the game because of regional pricing.
Well, that would depend on how much they "spam", so to speak. I don't quite think that this is all that harmful, although it is certainly annoying. If it's every thread, all the time, always, then it would deserve a friendly nudge to stop, I would think.
Posted February 24, 2017
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fables22: Yes, that hoes without saying.
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JMich: Love that typo. And lovely exchange to take out of context ;)
oooooops :D
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fables22: Thanks. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people won't agree with you on this but I'm genuinely acting in good faith and while I do realise some people might think forum moderation is unfair, I do honestly think it's needed. And, unfortunately to some, I'm actually in the position to enforce them. I will by no means abuse this, I hope that's clear.
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adaliabooks: Well, I think we're probably better off without anyone who leaves the forum because rules and moderation are being enforced.
No matter what some people might like to believe, Anarchy is not actually a form of government; we all need some kind of rules to follow and enforcement of those rules.
I've seen nothing to believe you will be anything but fair.
Thanks! I'm amazed that so far the feedback has been broadly positive, at least in terms of what's said publicly. I appreciate that some of you actually express your appreciation of having some moderation on here, unlike the other camp :)
Post edited February 24, 2017 by fables22
Posted February 24, 2017
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adaliabooks: Most of us are actually reasonable people, there is a reason forums have moderators. The state of these forums for the last 6 - 12 months is one of them.
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blotunga: ^This. People went as far as to create parallel forums in order to evade the anarchy. There is a fine line between freedom of speech and anarchy and here in the past months that line was crossed quite a few times.
Agreed a 100%. Thanks guys.
Posted February 24, 2017
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tfishell: You can never satisfy everyone.

I'm curious: Are there any plans to archive this forum and replace it with a new one built on preexisting software? I'm okay with this forum, but it is coming up on 10 years old I think.

https://www.google.com/#safe=off&q=best+forum+software
Not really sure, as of now.
Posted February 24, 2017
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fables22: We've had forum rules on GOG for a long time - if you need to refresh your memory, they're here: https://support.gog.com/hc/en-us/articles/212182929-What-are-the-house-rules-Code-of-Conduct-for-posting-on-the-website. These rules will possibly be undergoing some change in the near future, however, they are solid as they stand as of now, so please do follow them. If you have any questions or need any clarification, please let me know.
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Tyrrhia: I’m fine with strict rules if they are enacted fairly, i.e. for everybody. If you go the route of Twitter and Reddit (deleting exact same content depending on their author’s beliefs and on which group it targets), however, that will be the end.

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adaliabooks: I've seen nothing to believe you will be anything but fair.
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Tyrrhia: I wouldn’t be so sure about that.

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fables22: Thanks! I'm amazed that so far the feedback has been broadly positive, at least in terms of what's said publicly. I appreciate that some of you actually express your appreciation of having some moderation on here, unlike the other camp :)
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Tyrrhia: What do you mean by “the other camp”?
Ah, just the people threatening me over PMs. You know. The usual.
Posted February 24, 2017
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fables22: Ah, just the people threatening me over PMs. You know. The usual.
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tinyE: You're getting those too? :P
Oh you'd be surprised!
Posted February 24, 2017
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fables22: Oh you'd be surprised!
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tinyE: I politely asked everyone in the "WE ARE UNDER ATTACK THREAD" to atleast spread their hatred around.
How very nice of you :) I can deal with it eh.
Posted February 26, 2017
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Bookwyrm627: I'm certainly not official, but these don't seem like hard questions to me.
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227: Not if enforced in a reasonable way, of course, and your examples would definitely be the reasonable way of looking at them. I suppose I was just trying to get a feel for how fables views them to try and figure out whether we're going to get a similarly reasonable implementation of the rules or just another power-mad autocrat looking to drain all the joy and individuality out of a forum by going all letter-of-the-law on everyone.

(No offense, fables; that's definitely more unfamiliarity than distrust.)
It's understandable (and great as well) that you're asking these questions. As someone else said, actions speak louder than words. Rest assured that I'm not planning on taking the individuality out of this forum and enforce autocratic rules. I'm a person who doesn't get offended very easily (I wouldn't be in the job, if I did :)), but I do want to make sure that others don't have a reason to feel offended - as much as possible. It's more about making sure that you fine people feel comfortable on the forums than about me wanting to moderate how things work here. If that makes sense.
Posted February 27, 2017
Reporting and moving on is the preferred option - in the current climate of the forum, I think self-moderation could only make the "stratification" - if you will - worse. We already have people serially downrepping users they and their pals don't like - and vice versa. I don't think we need any more of this kind of hostility. If we ever manage to get to the point where we can trust the community to not effectively ostracise users who might not necessarily deserve it, while letting repeated offenders off the hook, then self-moderation might be a super useful tool.

As for trying to educate - yes, that's a good shout but, as someone else has already noted before, it doesn't always work. In some cases, I would worry about the same as above.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionForum moderation: Rules, threads, all that jazz(39 posts)(39 posts)
(39 posts)