hedwards: How many people are going to do that though? Return fraud is a thing in the US and yet many companies opt to have extremely liberal return policies. The "local" outdoor gear coop REI used to have a policy of accepting returns no matter how long ago the item was purchased. They did eventually have to end the policy as people would go around to yard sales and buy up old gear for return. Now, it's limited to 1 year, I think.

Similarly the local warehouse store Costco will take things back with very little questioning, this has led to crazy things like dead cut christmas trees being returned for a refund.

Sometimes, the policies do need to be revised, but often times the extra sales you make to customers that are on the fence makes up for the return fraud.

Also, keep in mind that since they have to buy the game in order to return it, the company either gets a low interest loan for that period of time, or they know the money is theirs, and can offer store credit depending upon jurisdiction.

lumengloriosum: [1] I can't argue percentages, but possibly close to piracy numbers. If a person can pirate it for the sake of just wanting to play a game without paying, I can't see why they wouldn't just abuse the system either. It's not going to be large scale like 50% of the audience. Your examples I would have to argue are irrelevant due to the nature of software being a non-physical medium. Sure some stores get the product back used/abused, but that is a physical material that they can still salvage further down the chain in a discount section or something of the sort. It's not a total loss.

Software on the other hand is license only, refund only, no resale or down the line discount or such. The problem would be relieved by physical mediums, but at the moment there is no way to ensure Digital only cannot be abused by such laws if refunds had legal backing.

[2] The problem is more in relation to the developer/publisher and the store front. Sure Steam can offer store credit for the refunding, it's still going to eat up revenue somewhere which the Storefront must compensate in losses. Combined with a legal lawful backing, economic issues that people use to justify piracy and don't care for keeping a particular game... There's nothing to prevent abusing the system theoretically. Low interest loan would be possible, or possibly a "refund tax" which simply compensates for a 'potential' loss in refunds.

Think about D.R.M. Who funds the anti-piracy measures that pirates keep breaking? You, the payer in the price tag.

Pheace: One issue with this I imagine, for online purchases at least, is if the 2 week/2 hour thing on Steam could be used as an 'endless' demo without recourse it would become a hell with the payment services and reverting/undoing payments all the time. I don't think any fees are involved there but I imagine it could quickly become quite hell of an administrative mess with the volumes Steam can reach to. It's not as easy as just handing money over the counter.

hedwards: As I said in the post that I hadn't yet posted, why bother? If you're going to do endless demos, then you might as well pirate the software and be done with it. This might somewhat increase the cost of doing business, but probably not by as much as people imagine. The worst abusers are likely just going to pirate anyways as it's a lot less effort than paying for a game and then seeking a refund while trying not to miss out on the window.

A lot of hassle to get a game without paying. At that point, you'd be better off just pirating the game rather than engaging in return fraud.

hedwards: [1] I doubt that very much. If you're going to do that, then you're going to pirate the game. Why give Steam the money for that period of time, if you're just going to use it as a means of pirating the materials?

[2] As far as your second point goes, I doubt that, the vast majority of the bad actors are probably going to continue to pirate software. You might have a few that do this for online features, but really, how good are you going to get at an online game in only 2 weeks?

lumengloriosum: Not all pirates are the same and function the same. There are some that simply wish to pirate as principle, there are some that use it for economic reasons and go the illegal route, there are some that possibly would go the legal route (there are pirates who do buy games), there are some that don't want the law on there back but wish to get games for the least amount of money possible. It is a potential that can happen. Pheace recognises "endless demos", demos are what some pirates justify their piracy with. It is an open avenue of approach for abuse without restraint.

Look at youtube with their "how to get free steam games", some videos have over 570,000 views with 10,000 up votes. There are your potential abusers right there.

hedwards: As I said in the post that I hadn't yet posted, why bother? If you're going to do endless demos, then you might as well pirate the software and be done with it.

Pheace: I think there was some confusion here. I wasn't talking about endless demo's to keep playing the same game. I was talking about the significant increase of refunds that would start happening when people find out they can test any game for 2 hours without consequences (unlike now when you get a warning if it happens too often)

hedwards: Sigh, this is just utter nonsense.Life is too short for this.

You haven't addressed the point in any meaningful way. People that are going to pirate are not likely to bother going through the hassle and potentially putting their own account at risk just so they can abuse a return policy. Most of these games are already available for download on various nautical themed sites.

hedwards: I get that, I think the other poster didn't.

I personally see nothing wrong with being able to get demos on all these games. If it becomes a problem, they can always offer a demo version. Demos have become rather scarce these days.

Pheace: There's little wrong with the concept of demo's, but this isn't cash over the counter refunds. If the amount of refunds increases exponentially that means payments to all kinds of different payment services will be getting returned in huge amounts and not all of those are happy with that. If it was just purchases and refunds to and from Steam Wallet only that'd be one thing but for the payment services that sounds like a massive change to me.