Good points. I actually did that. I have a mid-range GPU but a high end CPU, figuring I can get a better GPU later. Replacing the mb is a real pain.

Just wanted to point out that with the AT/X-standard you're "guaranteed" that the position of the holes fits in every case, every one from Extended-ATX to Mini-ITX, even the more obscure Mini-DTX size has no problem in an ATX/mATX case, as long as there is physical space for it. Same goes for powersupply and the like, thankfully, or there would much more chaos on the user experience.

I still use the old steel tower from Chieftec Dragon series with lots of internal 3.5 hdd bays, three 5.25 drive bays in front (which I've converted in to 4x 3.5 HDD bays as my main server case. If I need DVD/Blu-Ray I just use those through USB as needed) + 2x 3.5" in the front as well.

Working with SFF cases are difficult because they're so small and only have a couple drive places, at max, so it all depends on how much you plan to use/need. For a media computer beside your TV that's perfectly fine.

Right now I'm using a Thermaltake Core V21 Micro-ATX case with a whopping 20cm fan in front as my gaming pc. Generally, the bigger they get the more air they can push and usually the less noise you get, as it works on lower rpms. Although, it depends on the quality of course.

I would take bigger fans over liquid cooling any day as the later is such a pain to work with, is a lot more expensive, more noisy (in my experience at least), and if there is a leak you're pretty much done for.

When it comes to airflow, and since warm air expands and rises - cold air contracts and falls, make sure you have intake either in front or under and have 1 or 2 fans on top if the case allows it, otherwise out back above GPU/motherboard. Fans in the case door in front or behind where the GPU/motherbord is placed is also a good idea, just make sure the airflow is directed as much as possible with this in mind.

Just my 4 cents as I love building and setting up computers. Good luck! XD

Yes, for a 4000D (standard), I'd buy at least a couple new fans. I believe the stock ones included are 3-pin so they'll go 100%.

FYI, it should also have 2x 3.5' HDD bays under the PSU shroud and 2x 2.5" SATA3 SSD bays at the backside. So yes you can have HDDs.

https://www.corsair.com/ca/en/p/pc-cases/cc-9011198-ww/4000d-tempered-glass-mid-tower-atx-case-black-cc-9011198-ww

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hmcpretender is right. As for budget gamer build and getting a 4080S, this depends on your resolution. If you're playing 1080p, I'd say it's more frugal to upgrade your card every 3-5 years for $250-300 and sell your old one than to go with a $1200+ GPU from the start for 5-10 years. At even higher resolutions, there's no way a $1200+ GPU will last you past 3 years at the same settings and resolution if you're expecting the GPU to keep up with the newest AAA games.

Do your research then ask before you buy.
There's quite a few ppl in various computer forums writing "i just bought this and this
is it any good"...little late on that question...
Since you are waiting for a sale...Black Friday not too far off...
I too would cast my vote for ATX, IMHO you should only get micro ATX if there is
a reason...and OMG so cute is not a reason.
More space to install, more space to clean, more space to upgrade, better airflow.
No matter which way you go make very sure that the case has no extra
standoffs installed....they all need their hole...
Pay attention to the PSU, it's important.
2x16 is better than 4x8, avoid using 4 DIMMs
Yes 90C is normal until you set a negative PBO curve (ask).
Get everything up and running well before you start tweaking. EXPO/XMP is overclocking,
neither AMD nor INTEL guarantee anything above like 5200.

Trying to save up on a board, which is a very critical part of a PC and the thing bringing all parts together... and then buying a 1000 coins GPU... on that one the coins start to become fluid.

Hell... one thing i can still tell: A smaller board makes ONLY sense if the case can not fit a bigger board... If it can fit a bigger board there is no reason... except for the sake of being stingy, not to get the board size it is capable to handle, as there are clear benefits.

Why not to get ATX? Easy answer: If the case size is otherwise simply to big for the own taste and if the GPU someone is trying to put into it is not to big nor to hot. In case of a 4080 Super i do consider it a risky thing, as this is a real gamer GPU that is able to produce lot of heat, so it is able to heat up a case, especially a smaller one, resulting in worse thermal management and shorter lifetime.

I would say: TDP below 300 W = MATX is fine, above 300 W ATX is more secure and may help with the heat.
4080 Super is above 300 W, a 4070 TI Super is below.

Besides: Above 400 W i may even recommend a EATX case, however... only a Nvidia flagship got this demand (3090 TI, 4090... and soon 5090). AMD is not owning any of those flagships for many years already.

Yes, many many years ago i once had a MATX with a 980 TI and it WAS a flagship GPU. However, at those old days the flagship only had 250 W TDP... which has increased A LOT since the newest generations.

"IMHO you should only get micro ATX if there is a reason...and OMG so cute is not a reason."
I think OMG it's so cute is an excellent reason to want a case but you then need to check if it can accomodate your budget and space needs before buying the case.

Trying to find a suitable gamer motherboard for mATX can be really hard here and full ATX is often cheaper if you want a lot of features but maybe not where you live.

The B chipset is the way to go if you want to balance cost and features for AMD motherboards. No reason to consider less than 2x16GB RAM.

Board size depends on own needs a lot. Because a usual mATX only got 2 m2 SSD slots, a ATX 3 slots and a EATX usually 4 slots. For my needs... installing my entire archive on my m2 SSDs, the only thing that is safe for many years is 4 slots. Smaller boards are simply "to limited" for my needs nowadays... but i enjoyed them a lot in the past, inside some "cute cases".

AND they got issues with heat management on modern flagship GPUs, already told. 400 W is simply a very hard truck... believe me. However... above 30 cm in card length may already become tricky on mATX.

Others have brought up very good arguments why buying a top-of-the-line GPU in a budget build isn't a good idea.

I'd like to add this:
In my experience, graphics cards aren't the most durable and reliable components.
One of my graphics cards died due to faulty memory chips (--> can't be replaced without precision soldering).
Two or three got problems with the cooling system (--> noisy fans with bad bearings -or- dissolving thermal paste/glue).
Of course, all problems ever occur shortly after the expiry of any guarantee or warranty. Personally, I'd not dare to hope to get 10 years of service out of a modern high performance graphics card.

10 years is really to much to ask for... it will need LOT of luck. 5 years is surely realistic.... and perhaps some bonus years up to 6-7.... but 10 is surely almost a "lottery thing"... even on very high quality cards.

it is true... modern memory is way more prone to failure than the "good old VRAM" and i recommend always to fix a huge card properly inside any case... because if the PCB is getting any high force without proper fixing it in place... it can damage those memory chips pretty quick. There are many other weak spots.... for example the connector which is not the most reliable on Nvidia.... it may heat up and burn slowly... yes GPUs are expensive but not the most reliable part.

And, do NEVER buy a GPU which got memory chips ON THE BACK of a PCB... all the chips should be on the front and covered by a sink. The 3090 (not the TI, the TI had all the chips on the front) for example was a very bad design and prone to many failures. A sturdy design surely helps, but the 3090 was not sturdy at all, just expensive.

There is a good reason a Seasonic PSU got up to 12 years warranty but even the best GPU is usually limited to 3 years... the manufacturers seems to know their bounds.

If you want your GPU to last very long, most important things:

1. Sturdy design, all chips on front and the best controller possible (only the minority of GPUs got it, usually flagships). A good controller may shut the GPU down in case of any failure, on time.

2. Fixing it properly in place with good tools, never let any force affect the PCB

3. Use a good, i mean great, PSU, Titanium recommended (Seasonic, Corsair are the king on the market)

4. Use good (with filters and many fan) case with good airflow and frequently clean the fan and PCB everywhere.... (most people do not do this... dust is evil)

5. Properly attach any high quality cable, properly and high quality means 100% not 99% and fixing it.

Want to add that before you assemble your build try it on a non-functioning build or spare pc. Full teardown and assembly.

Saves you or your soon to be pc from a traumatic first operation with vital parts. Cheers!

May not help much because every PC got unique issues, some stuff that might not fit "as intended"; things that does not work as it should. Theory is always different than practice, yet it still is useful to know the theory.

On my MSI board, there was some unique solution related to a m2 PCIE 5.0 slot... i had to figure out how it actually works, although i made so many builds already... there is always something new. The cables may not always fit "as intended" on a build you never made before... so it simply need some good basic skills which can not be learned with another build any quick. It is kinda accumulated "long term experience", a heart for this sort of stuff, and constantly trying and checking out as many builds as possible, in theory or practice... both may be useful. Things may fail and failure may happen... this is the valuable "shit happens" with learning experience every builder will have to face... it can not be helped, it is part of the development and the own growth in skills. However, at some point the experience may become that big, it kinda will allow for a different judgement and builds which previously seemed "impossible" to manage, with proper heat and cable management, tuning the board software properly (especially adjusting Volt with correct values, there is no proper auto tuning, this is just a myth) and everything working the best way possible.

Just get an ATX case and don't bother with mATX - you'll save yourself some headaches. Especially with a beefy card as the 4080 Super. I did the mistake and chose an mATX case few years ago, when I built my gaming PC, but I wasn't too happy with the cooling for the GPU. Two years later I switched to an ATX case and never looked back. The temps are much lower, so much better flexibility, easier to work with, cable management and all. Also, try and get a case with easy to remove and clean dust filters.

I'd say don't bother with water cooling either, you really don't need it for the 7800X3D. Get something like the Thermalright Peerless Assassin or the ID-Cooling FROZN A620 PRO SE and you're all set. Water pumps can sometimes be noisier than a good air cooler. And good luck with those AIOs lasting more than 5 years.

Don't skimp on the power supply or motherboard, and avoid QLC SSDs.

QLC NAND (quad level charge) is not used on PCIE SSDs, it is simply to slow. TLC (triple level charge) is used a lot and it is okay... the main issue is simply the very slow performance of QLC. So, nope... not every SSD is "fast", not true.

For example the Samsung T5 external SSD is QLC. In general it is used on many SATA or USB SSDs. Indeed, i do NOT recommend using it... because a good HDD on this SATA cable may be the better deal. SSD = PCIE... this is the way to go!

However... QLC is "safe" for external SSDs, cheap and reliable... but performance is sometimes worse than on a huge capacity HDD. It took me more than 24h in a row moving nearly 2 TB of game-data toward a T5 SSD... so, SSD = fast = error... they can be slow as well. It is totally okay for a "backup SSD" or even a download SSD... but loading games or other programs on this one is a fail.

It's literally in hundreds of them, and that techpowerup database is definitely not exhaustive.

See the attached image. The list is much longer, but I had to crop the image to fit the forum size limit.

That is a long list.
So I'm not experienced about this but what is QLC versus PCIE?

Often when I buy NVME (fastest type of drive currently), it only has PCIE in front of the title

Btw I saw this today. ATX case, around 70$

https://phanteks.com/product/xt-pro-black/

Thoughts? Versus 4000D