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Speculation ahead....

If the past is an indication of how YouTube will react...

... it will be so scared (I say this as to reactionary behavior... but actually think they are probably orchestrating the scenario) of breaking the law, fines, and losing revenue that it will "turn" on content creators -- using flimsy evidence and broad readings of the law. It won't hit everyone, but it will be enough to make an example and create a "chilling effect" in content creation. It will get so confusing and difficult to get full monetization -- and the fear of legal issues will be so ever-present -- that IMO YouTube will again try to make itself into a "safe" subscription service.

This COPPA situation didn't happen in a bubble. I believe Google was probably behind this.

YouTube will try to re-start a paid subscription service (like YouTube Red) where they "personally" vet all of the content created guaranteeing advertisers, creators, and the law that this content is fully vetted for standards (much like commercial television's Standards & Practices in the US). YouTube will become online commercial television with a subscription -- both viewers and creators.

The reason I think YouTube will go this direction is because I have never -- since the acquisition by Google -- seen the platform take the side of creators over advertisers... and I don't think they have they have the appetite to take on lawmakers either (who are closely tied to advertisers as well). They've wanted a subscription revenue stream -- while discarding "fringe creators" -- and this scenario accomplishes both.

Meanwhile...

... one of the largest unions in the world is trying to unionize content creators and get YouTube to at the very least make their rules and monetization policies clearer and more transparent (as in any independent contractor relationship) -- something else Google does not want to do. This may be working through the courts as we speak.

And then there's the lack of certifying drivers in businesses like Uber (which was done in traditional taxi services) that is getting the company tossed from more and more cities. Very close relationship to the YouTube fiasco.

YouTube has a tough road ahead.

My only question in this ubiquitous platform is... if YouTube falls apart, where do we go then?

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richlind33: Youtube lied to the FTC about targetting children and that's going to cost them. Ultimately, I think COPPA will be modernized...
Yes, agree.

This was probably orchestrated from Google and not from the FTC. IMO Google is using the FTC to "clean house."

If the FTC was acting independently I would agree that the law will be modernized, but since it is IMHO being used as a tool of Google, I don't see this happening anytime soon.
Post edited December 14, 2019 by kai2
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kai2: Speculation ahead....

If the past is an indication of how YouTube will react...

... it will be so scared of breaking the law, fines, and losing revenue that it will "turn" on content creators -- using flimsy evidence and broad readings of the law. It won't hit everyone, but it will be enough to make an example and create a "chilling effect" in content creation. It will get so confusing and difficult to get full monetization -- and the fear of legal issues will be so ever-present -- that IMO YouTube will again try to make itself into a "safe" subscription service.

This COPPA situation didn't happen in a bubble. I believe Google was actually behind this.

YouTube will try to re-start a paid subscription service (like YouTube Red) where they "personally" vet all of the content created guaranteeing advertisers, creators, and the law that this content is fully vetted for standards (much like commercial television's Standards & Practices in the US). YouTube will become online commercial television with a subscription -- both viewers and creators.

The reason I think YouTube will go this direction is because I have never -- since the acquisition by Google -- seen the platform take the side of creators over advertisers... and I don't think they have they have the appetite to take on lawmakers either (who are closely tied to advertisers as well). They've wanted a subscription revenue stream -- while discarding "fringe creators" -- and this scenario accomplishes both.

Meanwhile...

... one of the largest unions in the world is trying to unionize content creators and get YouTube to at the very least make their rules and monetization policies clearer and more transparent (as in any independent contractor relationship) -- something else Google does not want to do. This may be working through the courts as we speak.

And then there's the lack of certifying drivers in businesses like Uber (which was done in traditional taxi services) that is getting the company tossed from more and more cities. Very close relationship to the YouTube fiasco.

YouTube has a tough road ahead.

My only question in this ubiquitous platform is... if YouTube falls apart, where do we go then?
IMO, Youtube has been dying for a long time, and Google doesn't have the talent or the ethos to turn that around. So how much more of the same old, corporate "premium content" do we need and/or want?

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richlind33: Youtube lied to the FTC about targetting children and that's going to cost them. Ultimately, I think COPPA will be modernized...
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kai2: Yes, agree.

This was probably orchestrated from Google and not from the FTC. IMO Google is using the FTC to "clean house."

If the FTC was acting independently I would agree that the law will be modernized, but since it is IMHO being used as a tool of Google, I don't see this happening anytime soon.
I disagree somewhat because there is tremendous animosity between Google and the Trump administration, so even content that Google is supportive of is still exposed to a dangerous degree of liability.
Post edited December 14, 2019 by richlind33
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richlind33:
Agree with you. I wrote the same a few pages back.

YouTube has been dying for a long time...

... what we're seeing is a desperate attempt by them to clamp down on users, to pacify advertisers, and to keep money coming in. They play themselves as the FTC's victim and pass off these changes as outside their control.

And yes... no one wants paid YouTube content. That's a given... but IMO it's their final card to play... although I might be wrong.

Meanwhile the platform is already hemmoraghing creators and viewership. If there was any real competition, it would probably be dead by now... or a much better platform.

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richlind33: I disagree somewhat because there is tremendous animosity between Google and the Trump administration, so even content that Google is supportive of is still exposed to a dangerous degree of liability.
IMHO most of that animosity is for show.

I try to look at what's to gain and feel pretty confident that Google in fact wants FTC involvement. It helps them (YouTube) "clean house" without the "personal responsibility" (The FTC made us do it!) and pacify advertisers -- their main mission.

In the end, if "freedom" sold to advertisers, YouTube would be a free platform, but advertisers don't like freedom. Same reason Standards & Practices came about.
Post edited December 14, 2019 by kai2
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richlind33:
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kai2: Agree with you. I wrote the same a few pages back.

YouTube has been dying for a long time...

... what we're seeing is a desperate attempt by them to clamp down on users, to pacify advertisers, and to keep money coming in. They play themselves as the FTC's victim and pass off these changes as outside their control.

And yes... no one wants paid YouTube content. That's a given... but IMO it's their final card to play... although I might be wrong.

Meanwhile the platform is already hemmoraghing creators and viewership. If there was any real competition, it would probably be dead by now... or a much better platform.
If Ron Paul was president instead of Trump I'd be as happy as a pig in shit. Trump is almost the antithesis of Dr. Paul, tho, so monopoly interests have nothing to fear as long as they don't go off the deep end and lose their shit over partisan politics.
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richlind33:
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kai2: Agree with you. I wrote the same a few pages back.

YouTube has been dying for a long time...

... what we're seeing is a desperate attempt by them to clamp down on users, to pacify advertisers, and to keep money coming in. They play themselves as the FTC's victim and pass off these changes as outside their control.

And yes... no one wants paid YouTube content. That's a given... but IMO it's their final card to play... although I might be wrong.

Meanwhile the platform is already hemmoraghing creators and viewership. If there was any real competition, it would probably be dead by now... or a much better platform.

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richlind33: I disagree somewhat because there is tremendous animosity between Google and the Trump administration, so even content that Google is supportive of is still exposed to a dangerous degree of liability.
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kai2: IMHO most of that animosity is for show.

I try to look at what's to gain and feel pretty confident that Google in fact wants FTC involvement. It helps them (YouTube) "clean house" without the "personal responsibility" (The FTC made us do it!) and pacify advertisers -- their main mission.

In the end, if "freedom" sold to advertisers, YouTube would be a free platform, but advertisers don't like freedom. Same reason Standards & Practices came about.
Freedom is absolutely essential for innovation, but corporate culture is so toxic and corrupt at this point that I don't think these people care about innovation. Without innovation, extinction becomes a certainty.
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YouTube is gonna learn a lesson in autodidacticism because such a huge introduction of such an "act" might in the end really cause groups of people to organize in different camps to abandon ship. YouTube is already too centralized as it is.

COPPA isn't even that of a huge issue if it would be enacted fairly. There are two problem I see with this. First, COPPA can be enacted unfairly to "shut down" people of all kinds (you can "bend the reality" a little by appealing to a certain side during a dispute). The second problem is that YouTube staff always fully acts in a autocratic manner. Them enacting these things far above the heads of anyone else. And this is like the fourth time that such a "strict rule" like this has been passed. If YouTube would be more personal and appealing towards its creators these potentially devastrating enactments with the illusion to make YouTube more family friendly would be resolved quite quickly.

Another topic, unionizing YouTube content creators also can shoot those who're forming one into the foot because Google can still make demands as they actually control the flow of information on their own site. Its difficult to function as a regular worker union within the digital landscape. Unionizing may work out properly and I hope we will see a fruitable conclusion so but there is a possibility that this will hugely backfire against a company such as Google. Such issues are largely overcomplicated and may take half a decade to resolve in a juridically fashion.

For better or for worse, there is a tiny possibility that Google may also sell YouTube to someone else should it "eat itself".

That comes from someone who doesn't even browse YouTube unless its some animal video but whenever I read about it or Amazons Twitch I hear people bitching about it.

EDIT: Hopefully this post isn't too political or anything like that and if it is write a PM.
Post edited December 14, 2019 by Dray2k
youtube is going the way of stadia and google glass, basically google bought a great website and have literally turned it into garbage over the years they have owned, it like changing the interface of it every damn month, adding google+ then removing it cos google+ is another failed project of googles.

ofc google only cares about advertisers the only thing they care about with content creators is there personal data. tbh the internet is just turning into a big corporation mass data harvest of its users, i suggest using fake info where possible,

for me personally i used a program called edge blocker to block edge browser and used gpedit to block iexplore.exe so internet explorer doesnt work, until all this corporate data harvesting stops i will not use a web browser, all my products i use are desktop apps, like im typing this out cos i have galaxy client installed, i watch twitch using the twitch app.

yes i get you cant be annymous online 100% but u can really minimise it even my email has fake info, my twitch has fake info, and i dnt give amazon money buy buying subs or crappy bits on twitch. and all the youtube videos i have watched ive download them to my pc through tor browser, i suggest if you do like using a web browser that you use TOR or some sort of VPN.

but as i said with youtube as it is, theeres no hope for it and the internet as a whole needs saving, tim berners lee a UK guy who invented the internet says tehre needs to be change and people need to stop the internet turning into a digital dystopia.

until websites dnt harvest my personal info and people and companys care about privacy il jsut stick to playing games on my pc and wont install a web browser. its suprising how much time and money you save not having one
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Dray2k:
Just a note...

The YouTuber's Union was started by Jorg Sprave and negotiations are via IG Metall.

From what I gather the union is only trying to create clarity and transparency in pay rates and a better and more transparent system for grievances (as is the case in almost all other independent contractor relationships) -- not trying to get classification as employees or anything like that.

From The Verge:
[i]
"The YouTubers Union’s main demands are related to making the service more democratic for smaller creators. It’s calling for monetization for smaller channels; the right to speak with a real person if a channel is to be deleted; transparent moderation decisions; ending demonetization; the end of Google Preferred, a different system for delivering ad money to creators; and the rules around content moderation to be clarified. "[/i]

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
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richlind33: Freedom is absolutely essential for innovation, but corporate culture is so toxic and corrupt at this point that I don't think these people care about innovation. Without innovation, extinction becomes a certainty.
While I agree...

... what we are seeing is a company faultering and trying desperately to control the market. In the end they will probably fail. It's the same reason Disney is constantly trying to change copyright to keep sole ownership of Mickey Mouse... corporate shenanigans to keep their "empires" without -- as you said -- innovating.
Post edited December 14, 2019 by kai2
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kai2: This COPPA situation didn't happen in a bubble. I believe Google was probably behind this.

YouTube has a tough road ahead.
Oh they likely were.....the new regulations aren't even being applied correctly(they skipped the "mixed audience" content category the FTC added to COPPA, likely on purpose).

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kai2: My only question in this ubiquitous platform is... if YouTube falls apart, where do we go then?'
Some have suggested bitchute, but with "news sites" writing hit piec...I mean articles on them as being a hive of the worst sort of evil ever and many believing them & the payment processors being "convinced" to not work with them more and more, that is also becoming harder to pull off(as an alternative site). And I am pretty much certain they(big tech) would try to do the same to any other new sites that pop up as well.

As for other alternates, there are supposedly other P2P/torrent network like sites springing up here and there, but who knows what will come of them.

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kai2: If the FTC was acting independently I would agree that the law will be modernized, but since it is IMHO being used as a tool of Google, I don't see this happening anytime soon.
As said above in this post, the FTC DID modernize the regs......YT implemented them haphazardly, though....likely to get smaller fringe creators off the platform under the guise of them "breaking FTC regulations" & other nonsense reasons.

===========================

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Dray2k: YouTube is gonna learn a lesson in autodidacticism because such a huge introduction of such an "act" might in the end really cause groups of people to organize in different camps to abandon ship. YouTube is already too centralized as it is.
People are already either leaving or talking about it(mostly smallish creators), sadly.

(Also thanks for the new word to look up :) )

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Dray2k: COPPA isn't even that of a huge issue if it would be enacted fairly.
They could've(they're not dumb, and have lawyers/etc to write such up for YT)...but they chose not to....likely on purpose.

(Same as with this new vague "harassment" rule set that they just added)

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Dray2k: For better or for worse, there is a tiny possibility that Google may also sell YouTube to someone else should it "eat itself".
Tbh i'd like to see a bunch of the biggest names buy it up if possible, but that's likely not a possible outcome.

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Dray2k: EDIT: Hopefully this post isn't too political or anything like that and if it is write a PM.
You should be safe....others went even further into that realm before you with seemingly no troubles. :)
Post edited December 15, 2019 by GameRager
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richlind33: Youtube lied to the FTC about targeting children and that's going to cost them.
You mean it's going to cost US....it already cost them a good amount of money(well good compared to what most of us make in a year), and now they're gonna pass the buck to us.
================================

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kai2: From The Verge:
[i]
"The YouTubers Union’s main demands are related to making the service more democratic for smaller creators. It’s calling for monetization for smaller channels; the right to speak with a real person if a channel is to be deleted; transparent moderation decisions; ending demonetization; the end of Google Preferred, a different system for delivering ad money to creators; and the rules around content moderation to be clarified. "[/i]
I hope that includes paying the money owed to some creators who got demonetized with money owed which youtube refuses to pay out unless they get re-monetized(essentially withholding it from them forever in some cases)

==================================

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moobot83: tbh the internet is just turning into a big corporation mass data harvest of its users, i suggest using fake info where possible,
Eh, I don't care anymore if they know some basic stuff about me.....the gov'ts & corps find it all out eventually(one way or another) anyways(well unless you're an actual hermit in the woods/etc).

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moobot83: for me personally i used a program called edge blocker to block edge browser and used gpedit to block iexplore.exe so internet explorer doesnt work, until all this corporate data harvesting stops i will not use a web browser, all my products i use are desktop apps, like im typing this out cos i have galaxy client installed, i watch twitch using the twitch app.
So you essentially traded one set of spying toolds for another? How does that help?

As I said above, they will find out data about you(they can even get data through sharing programs/trading programs with other big companies and institutions) anyways....it's pointless to overly worry about it, and most of the data they collect is dumb cr*p like likes/dislikes in products and such anyways.

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moobot83: until websites dnt harvest my personal info and people and companys care about privacy il jsut stick to playing games on my pc and wont install a web browser. its suprising how much time and money you save not having one
How do you save money not having a web browser? Not buying stuff? People spend their money(usually) anyways regardless if they have easy access to online shopping or not.
Post edited December 15, 2019 by GameRager