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dae6: Interestingly, I think the exact same thing can be said of newer games as well. :)
It's true of a lot of games, full stop. As far as newer games are concerned I'd say the FPS console ports are the hardest to forgive when they fall so short on PC.
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jefequeso: When we talk about old games being "better" or new games being "better," we're really talking about what design philosophy we prefer--or which design philosophy we think as more merit. It's nearly impossible to compare newer and older games on the same ground.
This is the best way to put it so far, IMO. I love the Deus Ex and Morrowind era design philosophy, and everything outside of that is a compromise to some extent.
Nope.

I'm 40, and has been playing games since the early 1980s. Older games are NOT better. Games are improving all the time. New games are better.

However, what I do not like is how corporations and big businesses have transformed the video game industry. Companies like EA and Activision have been making more and more intrusive and expensive: DRM, DLC, mandatory Internet connection, micro-transactions, monthly subscriptions, games are basically incomplete and force customers to pay more and more and more to get a complete game, etc. etc. Games are getting more and more expensive *and* intrusive.

So while the games themselves are getting better, the business practices are getting worse. The latest Mass Effect is a far, far superior game to Starflight, but the hassles one has to go through and put up with in order to play Mass Effect is getting intolerable.

But it's the same big problem with corporations and big businesses everywhere. See how corporations and businesses like to screw over people even when governments are not involved? (i.e., like just about everything else in the world, the REAL problem is corporations and big businesses, not governments. Changing the governments won't fix anything because governments are NOT the root of the problem.)
Post edited April 27, 2012 by ktchong
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ktchong: Nope.

I'm 40, and has been playing games since the early 1980s. Older games are NOT better. Games are improving all the time. New games are better.

However, what I do not like is how corporations and big businesses have transformed the video game industry. Companies like EA and Activision have been making more and more intrusive and expensive: DRM, DLC, mandatory Internet connection, micro-transactions, monthly subscriptions, games are basically incomplete and force customers to pay more and more and more to get a complete game, etc. etc. Games are getting more and more expensive *and* intrusive.

So while the games themselves are getting better, the business practices are getting worse. The latest Mass Effect is a far, far superior game to Starflight, but the hassles one has to go through and put up with in order to play Mass Effect is getting intolerable.

But it's the same big problem with corporations and big businesses everywhere. See how corporations and businesses like to screw over people even when governments are not involved?
That's just higher budgets and rising piracy and used game sales combining to form desperation for higher profit margins, basically.

I hate it too, but I see why they do it.
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StingingVelvet: You have to do 1 first, yes, that's why I said last 7 (including end). From there though you can go right to town and get the glove, then do almost anything as far as I know.
But don't you need the hookshot to enter the northern part of the town for the first time? If my memory serves, there is a dark (heavy) stone blocking the way if you want to enter the town from the south, which makes it impossible to get the glove until you have at least started dungeon 2.
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StingingVelvet: You have to do 1 first, yes, that's why I said last 7 (including end). From there though you can go right to town and get the glove, then do almost anything as far as I know.
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AFnord: But don't you need the hookshot to enter the northern part of the town for the first time? If my memory serves, there is a dark (heavy) stone blocking the way if you want to enter the town from the south, which makes it impossible to get the glove until you have at least started dungeon 2.
Nope, from the woods there is a hammer-blocked path that has a normal stone covering a portal.
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ktchong: I'm 40, and has been playing games since the early 1980s. Older games are NOT better. Games are improving all the time. New games are better.

The latest Mass Effect is a far, far superior game to Starflight,
This is clearly a matter of opinion, and there's nothing wrong with holding such an opinion. It's not possible to really claim this as an objective fact though, is it?

Personally, while playing the Mass Effect series (which I enjoyed), I kept wishing it was more like Starflight.
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FAButzke: The point is. I think most of us are tired and have seen it all. It's not that the games have gotten worse (some are, of course) it's we that have aged.
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Psyringe: I'm not so sure about that. I started playing video games in the 70s, and I still regularly get blown away by games. The last one that did that was Treasure Adventure Game. :)

It's interesting, though, that I got blown away by such an old-school title, while I'm currently playing through "Tomb Raider: Legend", being thoroughly unimpressed.
While I agree with you, I agree with other as well.
I think this is subjective.
I've started my "gaming career" when I was 4 and games came in K7 tapes. I've played a lot of games for the ZX-Spectrum & MSX.
That being said, I'm not comparing those games to "modern" games. That would be absurd. I'm talking about old games but not THAT old (like SC1).

It's has been some time now from my last "Ow snap!" moment. The last one, I think, was the ending of Mass Effect 2, back in 2010.
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Navagon: The thing about the rose tinted glasses is thinking that games on the whole were better back then. Which is utter bollocks. That said, it's true to say that many old games have done things which simply have not been successfully replicated since. It's just a question of whether or not you can still tolerate their obvious shortcomings to enjoy their strengths.
You could say the same about old and new movies.

And telling that new hollywood movies are better than old hollywood movies, because of better technology, chain of production or whatever

this is bollocks.

And I believe movies industry isn't much different than games industry.

And if someones says "I prefer classic literature / old movies / classic rock music" nobody would say man, you're just nostalgic. new movies/ music/ books are so much better than old ones!

Because they're not.

Modern culture has come to shit, and it also applies to games. Old games are better to me. (with few exceptions, of course)

It depends what you are looking for. If you're only after technology, then new games are for you. But when you are for story, complexity, originality etc. etc. old games would be mostly better than new ones.
Post edited April 27, 2012 by keeveek
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keeveek: You could say the same about old and new movies.
You could, yeah. Not sure of the relevance. But you could. Equally applicable is how some people will say old films are better when they can only cite a handful of stand out examples, having forgotten decades of dross.
http://www.imdb.com/chart/top

look at this. Most of them older than 10 years old. Many of them older than 30 years old

It's not nostalgia.
Post edited April 27, 2012 by keeveek
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keeveek: You could say the same about old and new movies.
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Navagon: You could, yeah. Not sure of the relevance. But you could. Equally applicable is how some people will say old films are better when they can only cite a handful of stand out examples, having forgotten decades of dross.
Indeed.

The one thing I will say though is that mainstream comedies used to be a lot better, because they focused on real humor and not gross-out stuff.
Well, maybe I'm weird but I couldn't cite even 10 good games from last 3 years, or 10 good movies (i've seen plenty) , but I could definitely cite dozens of good games from 1999 solely.

But maybe I'm weird.
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StingingVelvet: The one thing I will say though is that mainstream comedies used to be a lot better, because they focused on real humor and not gross-out stuff.
Gross out stuff is a cheap cop out. About the only good film I've seen that had that kind of humour was Something About Mary. But mostly it's talentless crap.

Old humour.. again, most of it hasn't aged at all well. There are even a lot of nineties things that I thought were great at the time but I can't find funny now. It really can age very fast and not many can stand the test of time.

Don't write off modern comedy though. There's a lot of good stuff out there now. It's just more... straight faced in its delivery. That said, it's on TV. Not in cinema...
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Navagon: Don't write off modern comedy though. There's a lot of good stuff out there now. It's just more... straight faced in its delivery. That said, it's on TV. Not in cinema...
I haven't seen a comedy movie since Mel Brooks stopped making movies that's even a tenth as funny as 30 Rock or Modern Family. But I'm not sure if that's because recent comedies are just awful, or if it's something to do with demographics and marketing preventing non-garbage comedies from being produced in the first place.