It seems my porn problem is a bit different, as it doesn't cause a moral dilemma, but a disk space one. I mean, it's normal to have some porn on disk, i wouldn't trust a man who has absolutely NO porn on his home computer, but when i decided to calculate the space porn took on my disk, and i was shocked. I guess porn is just a symptom of an underlying issue, which is 'minor' hoarding. I mean, i'm not gathering garbage from the streets. But, since disks are getting bigger and bigger, the amount of stored stuff gets bigger. So, one doesn't feel the hoarding to be really such an issue.
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Ah, forgot one important bit. I also feel a bit sad when i delete porn, and when it was good porn, the feeling is pretty strong, like, losing a precious game from a collection. That's when i realized there might be a problem.

Actually? Yes. But the topic is interesting, isn't it?

Hmm, if you're hoarding 'minor' porn, you'd best watch yourself. Mr SwirlyFace does not protect you as you may believe.

And there i was, thinking people will point out the "disks are getting bigger and bigger" part. I've underestimated the British yet again. ;D

Addictions are destructive to other part sof your life, full stop. If it's not destroying other, healthy parts of your life it's not an addiction. Not up for adebate on this juyst now. Maybe tomorrow if someone really wans to.
I'd like more of each, please.
That's not what he's saying and you're being obtuse. All he's saying is that porn can fulfill the need for sex, not that it's the only way nor the most desirable way. However for cost vs. benefit it can be the most valuable way for some people at some times.

He was being obtuse when he compared sleeping and eating to porn. He used the shortcut from porn to sex. It's just not the same so I thought it was useful to clarify this.

Anyway, you can avoid to have sex for quite a lot of time, but when it comes to sleep and food, it's not the same story. Sure sex is a prime need, but it won't kill you to not fullfil this need for a time.

I'm saying this because a porn addict just can't stop doing it even if he is trying. It is related to the sex need, but not only. Porn itself can change the need for sex into an addiction for videos and handjobs.

Again, I'm not saying porn is always a bad thing and that nobody should watch porn. It's about individual cases and what kind of porn they are watching and why.

Edit : quote syntax

Most healthy, young adults (not all) will need to find substitutes if their sex drive isn't regularly fulfilled, this isn't the same as you age but the healthier you are in your age bracket, the higher you average sex drive will tend.

You're right, any addiction will cause you to fuck up other parts of your life, HOWEVER, I've not ever encountered any case studies (though I'm sure they exist) where people lost their jobs or became unable to parent their kids because they just had to whack off to porn instead.

Despite what AA says (and they do a great disservice to people who have chemical dependence with their proselytizing and moralizing in some case, which is sad cause on the whole it's a good idea), addiction is a bit more than "I can't go X minutes/hours/days/months/years without wanting to". If you only engaged in a behavior when you're bored as fuck, have no responsibilities and nothing to do, that's not really an addiction (though it may indicate a lack of imagination).

So to sum up, yeah, you'll die without food faster than go crazy (i.e. experience negative consequences) without sex. Likewise you'll die without water even faster than without food. A lower frequency requirements doesn't make it not a core need for a healthy adult (nor does the fact you won't literally keel over).

I agree porn isn't usually bad for most people. I do argue that porn addiction has no current medical basis and that Occam's Razor indicates if you're engaging in porn for avoidance/destructive reasons that it's more likely you have a different and diagnosable/treatable issue.

AND FINALLY, if you are fucking up your life, job, family, and relationship for any reason FOR THE LOVE OF ANYTHING YOU ACTUALLY BELIEVE IN please seek medical help.

Exactly. I think that "porn addicts" are really people who have poorer control when exposed to easy targets for self pleasure, be it porn, snacks, or alcohol. At least that's the pattern I seem to be seeing when considering people I know who have holy fuck porn collections.

Also, watching perverted and / or illegal porn can fuck you up. People who are normal, but then start dabbling in 4chan and underage porn for example, have a much higher probability of carrying out such acts in real life sooner or later. As the old saying courtesy of Poe goes, "If you stare into the abyss" ...

However I do not believe normal porn can have similar impacts as it should not have a detrimental psychological effect; lusting for attractive adults is entirely wholesome.

Unless you want to do strange stuff to them involving rhubarb.

I feel the need to interject here, probably because my biology degree isn't doing me any good at the moment in any other area of my life.

Orc is right about most of his points. All biologists would agree that the urge to reproduce is a fundamental part of any organism - humans are no exception.

The difference is simple: Humans have a bit extra. Instead of being 'mere' animals, who basically say "Weeeell, feeling that urge, time to go try a little MATING DANCE!" (cue "I like to move it move it") humans have cognitive and metacognitive abilities that animals do not possess.

No matter how it is achieved, the act of satisfying these reproductive urges is fundamentally pleasant (Barring unusual medical conditions). Herein lies the problem. Many religious or societal constructs assume that this is giving in to the beast, or "the flesh" as it is called in the Bible, and place an incredible taboo on performing or discussing any such act outside the single sanctioned act of marriage.

In actuality, these organizations set up a cognitive dissonance in those who listen - coitus and autoerotic stimulation are hardwired into our bodies to reward us with endorphins, which function as a sort of 'pat on the head' from our brains to let us know that we just increased our chances of winning the natural selection game. To have exterior forces telling us that these completely natural, irrepressible rewards are a reward for doing something wrong forces us to address the 'impropriety' we have committed - often at too young an age to grasp the implications, and at an age where we merely bow to the half-understood influences outside our scope of knowledge.

For this reason, many less Puritanical organizations (including quite a few Christian authors) recommend autoerotic stimulation as a means of avoiding improper or 'impure' thoughts. By satisfying the biological need with a minimum of fuss and bother and moving on with the day, an individual can take his or her mind off of this need and focus on more important matters instead of fantasizing.

Unfortunately, there is a direct link between pornography and satisfying basic biological needs. When a pet performs a trick, and its master gives it a treat, we call this "positive reinforcement." What many people do not realize is that the body performs its own positive reinforcement. The same endorphins and feeling of well being that an individual achieves from satisfying their natural reproductive needs can accompany exposure to pornography to actually train the individual to seek out pornography. The natural instinct of any mammal is simple: "If it feels good, do it."

I believe this summarizes the problem. Those who repeatedly stimulate themselves when accompanied by pornography begin to unconsciously or consciously link the feeling of pleasure to a source outside of a normal and healthy relationship between individuals. Therefore, a behavior that carries social stigma becomes irrevocably linked to an individual satisfying innate biological needs. For this reason, avoiding pornography tends to be beneficial - whether an individual is concerned for private, social, or religious reasons, pornography can bring out the dark side of autoerotic stimulation.

Note: I do realize that autoerotic stimulation has more than one meaning, but it is perfectly appropriate in this context. Calling it "masturbation" just makes it seem flippant, and I have a sneaking suspicious people tend to react to that word like a six year old boy reacts to hearing the word "butt," by snickering to themselves.

Nietzsche.

Gesundheit.

Well since I returned from europe I had really nothing to do in between now and my time to go to boot camp I went to my high school to become a assistant coach for wrestling, now that seems to occupy alot of my time, still though finding a girlfriend is another story its not the matter of attracting her interest but its me losing intrest that always bites me in the ass later.

Beyond the cases of exploitation (and they exist... I think porn is one of those jobs where the participants should be strictly entrepreneurs and never employees), I think porn messes a lot of young people up, at least for their early sexually active years if nothing else.

When I grew up, we had sexuality classes which were very pertinent. They taught us many things, including STDs, safe sex, the place sexuality can have in relationships and how to be respectful of and please your partner. Things that are worthwhile to learn before your first time.

Now, sexuality classes are slashed, because some parents felt it was intrusive on their "parental authority".

As a replacement, our teenagers have porn, where you regularly see porn stars doing it with perfect strangers without a condom.

You also often see them treating their partners with a total lack of respect and objectifying them.

A partner of mine some years back told me about how many young men behaved totally inappropriately with her during sexual encounters and how their behavior was strongly influenced by porn (they followed many of the cliches seen in pornographic movies and were rather insistent on them).

First of all, thank you everyone for your advice and general willingness to help...this is an awesome community!!

Secondly...yes I'm being serious.

So some more information:
I'm male.
I'm a Christian. (In actual belief not just in the "I go to church on Sundays" kind of way)

By "addiction" I mean I masturbate pretty much at least once a day. (I used to watch porn extremely frequently, but now i have managed to cut it down significantly) I understand it might not technically be an addiction on a biological level, but I can definitely see and feel the emotional and psychological effects in how I view and think about women.

No I'm not in a relationship, although there is a girl I'm interested in, but she's not looking to date right now.


My habit of masturbation came from a bad (in some ways) relationship I was in, where we would have phone sex every single night. I had a masturbation problem before that, but that's what REALLY got me hooked. Although, she also is what got me off my porn addiction.


So anyway there's a bit of information about me. And just to throw this out there: I'm a Christian, but I'm definitely not perfect. I know the average "holier than thou" Christian that's out there annoys me every bit as much as it annoys anyone else who isn't a Christian. So I just wanna say...I'm human and I have problems. I don't want to add to the (mostly true) idea that Christians are a bunch of hypocrites. I know I'm nowhere near being a good person! lol :)

A really good, empirically based layperson's guide for overcoming addictions is "Willpower's Not Enough" by Arnoldy Washton and Donna Boundy.

Scribe81 gave some really good advice that pertains to Christians who think they're caught up in a porn, sex, or masturbation addiction. You should read what he wrote carefully, if you haven't done so already.

Some Christian congregations or denominations are very good at making people feel guilty and distressed about things that are normal and wouldn't cause them trouble except that their fellow Christians think it important to violate Jesus's "Judge not, lest ye be judged".

Nothing you described sounds to me to be abnormal or excessive, or caused you any distress except as others (and what they "taught" you) made it distressing to you. Nor does it have even a few of the badges of addiction I mentioned earlier. It sounds more like guiltiness than addiction.

From what you wrote it appears you can have, and did have, a normal (more or less) sexual relationship with a woman, and it was satisfying to you. Eventually you will have more of these, some more wonderful, some less. Treasure them all, and treasure all your partners, and eventually you will come into one where neither of you wants to let go, ever.