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General discussion (archive)Copyright out of control (again)(62 posts)(62 posts)
(62 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 30, 2011
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orcishgamer: Ultima IV was released in 1985, over 25 years ago. It's taught in history of video game courses. It's one of the most well known games of that era. This is my point about where culture and copyright clash, this is the point where copyright steals from the public domain. This is the point where creativity and derivative works are crushed. This is where pure enjoyment of culture is crushed. All this in favor of eking a few more dollars out of the work.

This is the part where the copyright holder has broken its contract with the public to enrich the public domain in exchange for a limited time monopoly.

This is why I posted this. And fuck EA.
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HoneyBakedHam: I, also, am a disciple of Lawrence Lessig... But in this case, none of that culture crushing stuff is happening. I mean, I just downloaded the game 5 minutes ago, legally, for free.

They are simply asserting that while it is now free, it isn't a free-for-all in terms of distribution. They have granted permission to specific parties to distribute it, and not anyone else, and wish to enforce that. Why? No clue... but they aren't squelching the modding community, the NWN thing, or unofficial patches or even the authorized free distribution, so the game's place as a historical and cultural artifact is secure.

"I think" they (and everyone else) should just release back-catalog material into the wild as a matter of course once it reaches a certain age... but that's me, not the copyright holder.

On a tangential point... thanks to those Nazi sympathizing muther f*ckers at Disney, copyright is too damned powerful now... but you know... that's another thing.
You're conflating free beer with freedom. Yes, the game is free beer, which is great, it won't be lost and people can play it. However, people need to be free to modify and use their culture. It is not public domain (as it should be after 25 years) and no one is free to modify it, make derivative works from it, include it in another work, and so on. So while, yes, it could be worse, this piece of culture is still robbed from us, the public, though it is by no means unique in this respect.

You're right though, I do like Lessig. He doesn't think copyright should be abolished, though, as so many think he does (I know you know this, but for others who may not).

Yes, Disney and Bono are downright evil in my book.
Post edited March 30, 2011 by orcishgamer
Posted March 30, 2011
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orcishgamer: It is not public domain (as it should be after 25 years)
Why should it be? You should get over your sense of entitlement. COPYRIGHT IS TEH DEVIL I CAN:T GET THIS FOR FREE WAH WAH! It's pretty pathetic.
Posted March 30, 2011
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orcishgamer: It is not public domain (as it should be after 25 years)
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Kurek: Why should it be? You should get over your sense of entitlement. COPYRIGHT IS TEH DEVIL I CAN:T GET THIS FOR FREE WAH WAH! It's pretty pathetic.
Actually, no, you get over your sense of entitlement. There is no natural right to own an idea, piece of art, or anything that's not physical. That is a granted right, and we granted it only with the aim to increase the public domain faster. If the public domain isn't being enriched then the deal is broken, get it?

I don't need free beer, I can afford beer (though not everyone can), but everyone, including me needs the freedom to enjoy and take part in their culture. This means not locking culture up for our entire natural lives where no one is free to do shit with it.

So in essence, it should be public domain after 25 years because that was the fucking deal we made in the first place. Good enough for ya?
Posted March 30, 2011
SUPER OPTIMISM POST!

Maybe the big publisher to be announced in April or May is EA and one of the series they will be selling on GOG is Ultima and thus they wanted to rid the world of the freebies so they can sell all the Ultima games on GOG oh boy!

END SUPER OPTIMISM POST!
Posted March 30, 2011
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Kurek: Why should it be?
Maybe because before cp started being skewed by greedy corporate twats who couldn't come up with a creative thought to save their lifes that was the spirit of cp ? You know, to give the original thinker a period of grace in which he could benefit from his idea and after that others could build upon that idea so that creative thought could generate more creative thought instead of what we have now which basically boils down to corporate fucks who keep lobyying, bribing and bullying to tighten the grasp so that they can milk each and every creative thought to exaustion for more coin.
Posted March 31, 2011
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StingingVelvet: SUPER OPTIMISM POST!

Maybe the big publisher to be announced in April or May is EA and one of the series they will be selling on GOG is Ultima and thus they wanted to rid the world of the freebies so they can sell all the Ultima games on GOG oh boy!

END SUPER OPTIMISM POST!
I thought of that as well but yes it is a very optimistic idea. These days I am used to disappointment. EA might be re-releasing them but only on the sodding iPhone.
Posted March 31, 2011
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drmlessgames: I dont think ultima iv was not under public domain at all, its was only free to distribute. Nothing made like after 1923 is public domain.
This is mostly true. Basic copyright lasts a minimum 50 years these days, and that's assuming that the copyright holder does nothing within those 50 years to extend the copyright in any way (think Disney and its near perpetual copyright on Mickey Mouse, currently in its 83rd year). EA still has at least 25 years on the base Ultima IV copyright, but they could very easily extend that by releasing a new or updated Ultima IV game.
Post edited March 31, 2011 by cogadh
Posted March 31, 2011
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drmlessgames: I dont think ultima iv was not under public domain at all, its was only free to distribute. Nothing made like after 1923 is public domain.
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cogadh: This is mostly true. Basic copyright lasts a minimum 50 years these days, and that's assuming that the copyright holder does nothing within those 50 years to extend the copyright in any way (think Disney and its near perpetual copyright on Mickey Mouse, currently in its 83rd year). EA still has at least 25 years on the base Ultima IV copyright, but they could very easily extend that by releasing a new or updated Ultima IV game.
Copyright expires ~50 years(exact time frame varies by country, i believe that america's is 70 years) after the creators' death(s) in most countries regardless of what is being done with the material. And corporate copyright (for works created for a company lasts 95 years after publication or 120 years after creation, whichever comes first.
Post edited March 31, 2011 by Orryyrro
Posted March 31, 2011
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cogadh: This is mostly true. Basic copyright lasts a minimum 50 years these days, and that's assuming that the copyright holder does nothing within those 50 years to extend the copyright in any way (think Disney and its near perpetual copyright on Mickey Mouse, currently in its 83rd year). EA still has at least 25 years on the base Ultima IV copyright, but they could very easily extend that by releasing a new or updated Ultima IV game.
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Orryyrro: Copyright expires ~50 years(exact time frame varies by country) after the creators' death(s) in most countries regardless of what is being done with the material.
Corporations don't die, I think it works differently for them. It's so stupid I just leave it at "nothing created in your lifetime will ever enter the public domain without the copyright holder allowing it to happen early".
Posted March 31, 2011
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Orryyrro: Copyright expires ~50 years(exact time frame varies by country) after the creators' death(s) in most countries regardless of what is being done with the material.
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orcishgamer: Corporations don't die, I think it works differently for them. It's so stupid I just leave it at "nothing created in your lifetime will ever enter the public domain without the copyright holder allowing it to happen early".
Right, that's why it's a fixed 120 years since creation or 95 years since publication for them instead of life+70 years, in the US.
Posted March 31, 2011
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cogadh: This is mostly true. Basic copyright lasts a minimum 50 years these days, and that's assuming that the copyright holder does nothing within those 50 years to extend the copyright in any way (think Disney and its near perpetual copyright on Mickey Mouse, currently in its 83rd year). EA still has at least 25 years on the base Ultima IV copyright, but they could very easily extend that by releasing a new or updated Ultima IV game.
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Orryyrro: Copyright expires ~50 years(exact time frame varies by country) after the creators' death(s) in most countries regardless of what is being done with the material.
The Berne convention established international standards for copyright which do state that a copyright lasts 50 years after the original creator's death, but does allow for longer terms. (the current EU term is 70 years after the original creator's death). It does not disallow extending copyright in the event a protected work or element of a work is re-used. For example, character A appears in book 1 and the author dies shortly after its release. 49 years later, before the original copyright expires, the estate of that author allows a sequel to book 1 to be written, still using character A. Now there is a new copyright on that work. The original book might enter the public domain a year later, but the copyright on the character has now been extended thanks to its inclusion in a new creative work. That's why many pop culture characters have never entered the public domain, they keep getting re-used and through that, their copyright extended.
Posted March 31, 2011
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cogadh: That's why many pop culture characters have never entered the public domain, they keep getting re-used and through that, their copyright extended.
you're talking about trademark, not copyright, Micky Mouse is currently copyrighted, but that copyright will expire (when depends on where you are) however, Disney will still be able to keep the trademark.that doesn't mean you won't be able to use the character, but you won't be able to advertise using that character, for an example see Captain Marvel, the trademark went out of use, Marvel comics bought it, and so comics featuring the original Captain Marvel have to be marketed as Shazaam.
Posted March 31, 2011
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cogadh: That's why many pop culture characters have never entered the public domain, they keep getting re-used and through that, their copyright extended.
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Orryyrro: you're talking about trademark, not copyright, Micky Mouse is currently copyrighted, but that copyright will expire (when depends on where you are) however, Disney will still be able to keep the trademark.that doesn't mean you won't be able to use the character, but you won't be able to advertise using that character, for an example see Captain Marvel, the trademark went out of use, Marvel comics bought it, and so comics featuring the original Captain Marvel have to be marketed as Shazaam.
No, I'm not talking about trademark, that's a completely separate issue (and one that is just as screwed up). I'm explaining how copyright is being abused to protect intellectual properties, which was never its intention. Copyright is only supposed to protect creative expressions, like paintings, movies, books, etc., not the ideas behind those creative works, which is what it is currently being used to do.
Posted March 31, 2011
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cogadh: That's why many pop culture characters have never entered the public domain, they keep getting re-used and through that, their copyright extended.
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Orryyrro: you're talking about trademark, not copyright, Micky Mouse is currently copyrighted, but that copyright will expire (when depends on where you are) however, Disney will still be able to keep the trademark.that doesn't mean you won't be able to use the character, but you won't be able to advertise using that character, for an example see Captain Marvel, the trademark went out of use, Marvel comics bought it, and so comics featuring the original Captain Marvel have to be marketed as Shazaam.
The current Mickey Mouse trademark covers the current look, not the old Steamboat Willy look, I think. They also have a trademark on the Mickey ears logo.

Use of Donald Duck is actually licensed by Disney to University of Oregon, which is why he's their mascot.
Posted March 31, 2011
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cogadh: No, I'm not talking about trademark, that's a completely separate issue (and one that is just as screwed up). I'm explaining how copyright is being abused to protect intellectual properties, which was never its intention. Copyright is only supposed to protect creative expressions, like paintings, movies, books, etc., not the ideas behind those creative works, which is what it is currently being used to do.
Except your example of writing a sequel years later doesn't extend the copyright on the original version of that character, if it's significantly different it creates a new one, but then if it's significantly different it's not the same character, is it?
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Copyright out of control (again)(62 posts)(62 posts)
(62 posts)