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Elmofongo: well seeing as a majority of people does not like DRM than creators should reevaluate their stance how should they defend their products because I think they are overprotecting it otherwise they are going to suffer massivly the best examples of this is Spore and Crysis shipping with SecuRom and Assassin's Creed 2 with always online DRM
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F1ach: Well as regards AC2 I have the 360 version, but I wont buy D3 because it has always online drm. Securom is different because its actually possible it will bugger up your PC, so I would never touch a product with that on it. :)
Agreed about the Assassin's Creed part besides who would want to play Assassin's Creed 2 on the PC when it's just a console port, Also yeah Diablo 3 will have that always online DRM but at least the balanced it by making the game Multiplayer oriented
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Gersen: It's not to say it's "better" or "less wrong" that stealing, it's just something different.
Yet in most cases, it doesn't constitute a crime. Which can make quite the difference. (I'm not sure here, it probably depends on degree and intent)
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F1ach: Well as regards AC2 I have the 360 version, but I wont buy D3 because it has always online drm. Securom is different because its actually possible it will bugger up your PC, so I would never touch a product with that on it. :)
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Elmofongo: Agreed about the Assassin's Creed part besides who would want to play Assassin's Creed 2 on the PC when it's just a console port, Also yeah Diablo 3 will have that always online DRM but at least the balanced it by making the game Multiplayer oriented
Yeah I get what you mean about the MP orientation, I just dont consider it "enough" of a MMO to have always on drm, but I like Torchlight and T2 will be here soon enough either way :)
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kavazovangel: Beatport
Audiojelly
Juno Download
You should also try HDtracks. They really went overkill with the bitrate. I've always dreamed of 96khz bitrates ^_^
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Gersen: Everybody knows that piracy is "murder"
I love you!

But seriously, it seems as though people who argue it is theft are under the impression that if it is not theft then it is legal and ethical. That is not the case, there are plenty of things that aren't theft that are still illegal and unethical (-cough- murder -cough-. I have never seen someone argue for the legalization of anything using an argument of "It's not (insert other crime here) so it is fine." and anyone who does argue like that is a dumbass and should be laughed at. But at the same time, one must admit that Y is not X.
As you said
"It's not to say it's "better" or "less wrong" that stealing, it's just something different. "
Seriously if people admit that then they could go on to make an argument about why piracy, despite being different than theft, is still unethical and they will be taken a lot more seriously than someone who argues that Y is X.
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Elmofongo: 'sigh' You say piracy is not stealing others says it is, I do not know who to believe anymore :(
Dude, check any legal definition. Theft, stealing, etc. all have very specific meanings, legally, because specific meanings are crucial to a functioning legal system. In every legal system that bothers with copyright in a more than cursory manner violation of copyright is always a separate offense and often not even criminal (though that's slowly been changing, more and more criminal charges are existing for copyright infringement, every year).
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F1ach: Its theft, if you go into a pub and buy a pint of beer and then decide to share it with your mate, the beer doesnt magically clone itself into two beers, the pub has sold one pint and one pint has been consumed.
And now you see the twisted logic that is required to make copyright infringement into "theft". Usually the arguments defy all laws of physics and the bounds of a reasonable allegory (by way of having nothing at all to fucking do with anything). Not to mention they have fuck all to do with any legal definitions, which actually do matter. All this shit is meant to do is convince you it's "wrong/immoral". Since, in this regard, copyright infringement falls in with the likes of murder, "being gay", speaking ill of the church, etc. (i.e. both things that most folks would find reasonably immoral and things most folks at a given time might find actually patently ridiculous) you'll have to try and come to your own, reasoned conclusions with regards to the morality of the matter.

However, make no mistake, there is no argument about copyright infringement being in any way "theft", people saying that are either lying to you or terribly unqualified to open their mouths on the subject.
Post edited May 08, 2012 by orcishgamer
If you are infringing the copyright of a product, you are taking away the ability of its creator to make money from their labour, you are a thief.

The twisted logic is someone trying to justify their being a thief by saying they are only infringing someones copyright.
Post edited May 09, 2012 by F1ach