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timppu: "Apart from amok, I personally don't know anyone who've ever had any problems with any GOG game"
Which is a complete lie, yet again, as I have never had any problems with any gog games, nor have I ever said so. Please stop putting words in my mouth yet again.

Look, do you want to hijack yet another thread in your personal vendetta against me on some finer points of sematic? The most amusing part in all this that you are the one calling me a troll.

I am not going to raise to this yet again, so I will now let you insult me(yet) again, so you can have the final word. I know how important it is for you.
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amok: Which is a complete lie, yet again, as I have never had any problems with any gog games, nor have I ever said so. Please stop putting words in my mouth yet again.
I never claimed you did. Funny how you missed the [...]"if"[...]s, but then again - I do know you and your selective reading :)
Post edited February 02, 2014 by timppu
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amok: ...nor do I know anyone outside of this forum to have had any problems either.
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/864958088476953947
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/1/828937979095845728
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SteamClientBeta/discussions/0/828934089833920326

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?1766-Steam-Offline-Mode-Poll
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pigdog: 3) How do Steam, Desura and other sites work?
- Do you have to be online to play?
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amok: no. there is an offline mode.
But you do need to be online to install a local backup, at least in the case of Steam.
Post edited February 02, 2014 by jamyskis
I'm only talking from experience. Some people reports it to be finicky, I know that and have said so.
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amok: no. there is an offline mode.
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jamyskis: But you do need to be online to install a local backup, at least in the case of Steam.
He did not ask about that :)
Post edited February 02, 2014 by amok
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amok: I'm only talking from experience. Some people reports it to be finicky, I know that and have said so.
That's fine, but you're presenting it as though we were DRM-free hipsters deliberately looking for problems with Steam.

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jamyskis: He did not ask about that :)
No, but I too have fallen foul of this question as well at one point. You'd be amazed how people mix up "install" and "play", which for many people are the same thing. Best to be perfectly clear.
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amok: I'm only talking from experience. Some people reports it to be finicky, I know that and have said so.
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jamyskis: That's fine, but you're presenting it as though we were DRM-free hipsters deliberately looking for problems with Steam.
That was not my intention, I only reported what I know from my own experience with steam and those I know who use steam ... you hipster you...

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jamyskis: He did not ask about that :)
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jamyskis: No, but I too have fallen foul of this question as well at one point. You'd be amazed how people mix up "install" and "play", which for many people are the same thing. Best to be perfectly clear.
fair enough.
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pigdog: 3) How do Steam, Desura and other sites work?

- Do they check your IP address?
Certainly, they'll log it too, add cookies almost certainly and use other tracking techniques. That is, for example how regional pricing is typically applied on those sites using it, and how login details are remembered. GOG does this too though if you're logged on and it is standard practice, the only real question is how long they'll be retained, whether it's integrated into other strategies- for examples partnerships with other firms, use of client software- and whether they do personal rather than aggregate tracking via it.
- What else may they be able to collect?
If they install a client or their own software they can collect whatever they want while it is running- limited by legality (which varies by jurisdiction), practicality and whatever they say in their EULA and privacy policies (which people tend to forget about). The only way to know the policies for a specific company is to actually read the policies through. They're generally fairly standard on the privacy front, mainly varying in terms of the amount of legalese used. The typical stuff collected will be things like uptime, what games you play for how long, any sites visited, friends and connections, achievements etc but there are examples of more direct monitoring of in game behaviour as well.

Overall it's similar to the Facebook model. The 'free' client isn't really free, they'll try to sell you stuff through it at minimum and definitely use it to profile you at least so far as it helps them sell you said stuff. So it's a balance between the usefulness of the service and your attitude to privacy or any other considerations as to whether you use them.
Like I said the most important difference with Steam is that you can't install your games without an online connection. You can run games in offline mode but you still need Steam installed on your system and you need the PC in question to connect to the internet before you can go offline with it. With some games you might be able to circumvent this by just copying the game folder over from another PC, but as HiPhish said, it's not 100% reliable because you can't run the installer to set possibly required registry entries and such.

And as for limited downloads, that's not usually what DRM is about, but some DRM has limited activations. For example, download as many times as you want, but you can only install the game three times before you have to ask the publisher to reset your limit and give good reasons for it. Or install it as often as you want, but only on one specific PC or system, etc.

EDIT: ninja'd, kind of, so nvm. :)
Post edited February 02, 2014 by Leroux
It's like a dribbly drooply ball of drmmy dummy stuff.
In a Nutshell.....

Steam games are mostly DRM laden. However, there are a few of games that have no DRM.

Desura is "DRM agnostic" though most of the games there have no real DRM by virtue of being indies.

GOG is 100% DRM free.

ShinyLoot claims to be DRM free but they allow online activations for some games.
Post edited February 04, 2014 by king_mosiah
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pigdog: ...why DRM-free games are the way to go if you don't want intrusive titles from alternative sites. ...
Hmm, I think this should be easy. If you don't want instrusive titles from alternative sites, then clearly GOG is the least instrusive out there: buy, download, forget. Because there isn't any DRM.
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king_mosiah: Steam games are mostly DRM laden. However, there are a few of games that have no DRM.
... but still require online "activation" through Steam at first installation, so it's debatable whether no own DRM is the same as truly DRM-free in this case.

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king_mosiah: ShinyLoot is claims to be DRM free but they allow online activations for some games.
They don't claim to be DRM-free, they just state that they're "combining Steam/Desura keys with DRM-free downloads" which leaves room for interpretation, and that they "don't allow any games on the site with what we feel is obtrusive DRM such as SecuROM or Tages" which still leaves room for DRM they 'feel' is not obtrusive.

In any case, the gamecards are open about which type of DRM the games are using, if any; just like on Gamersgate (apart from the fact that GamersGate has its own DRM client on top of everything).
Post edited February 03, 2014 by Leroux
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Leroux: ... but still require online "activation" through Steam at first installation, so it's debatable whether no own DRM is the same as truly DRM-free in this case.
In those cases - only around 10% of the catalogue, it's worth noting - the game can be copied out of the SteamApps directory and run entirely independently of Steam. So it does meet the criteria of DRM-free, but it is extremely inelegant when you consider that GOG (and Humble Store as well, but not always) offer proper installers.

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Leroux: They don't claim to be DRM-free, they just state that they're "combining Steam/Desura keys with DRM-free downloads" which leaves room for interpretation, and that they "don't allow any games on the site with what we feel is obtrusive DRM such as SecuROM or Tages" which still leaves room for DRM they 'feel' is not obtrusive.

In any case, the gamecards are open about which type of DRM the games are using, if any; just like on Gamersgate (apart from the fact that GamersGate has its own DRM client on top of everything).
They do seem to make a deliberate attempt to misrepresent it as being "serial check only" at most, which is why I haven't bought anything from there since the Groupees bundle.
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Leroux: ... but still require online "activation" through Steam at first installation, so it's debatable whether no own DRM is the same as truly DRM-free in this case.
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jamyskis: In those cases - only around 10% of the catalogue, it's worth noting - the game can be copied out of the SteamApps directory and run entirely independently of Steam. So it does meet the criteria of DRM-free, but it is extremely inelegant when you consider that GOG (and Humble Store as well, but not always) offer proper installers.
I know, but to me DRM-free should include the certainty that you can run the games on any computer you want, not just the hope that the Steam installation did nothing but extract the game files. If there were changes to the registry during installation, it might not work on a different computer, so it's more about luck than about having actual control over your purchased game. Humble often just offers zipped game folders, too, but at least in those cases you can be sure that the game is not dependent on any registry entries and such.
Post edited February 03, 2014 by Leroux