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General discussion (archive)First Person Shooter platforming sections(57 posts)(57 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 12, 2014
So, I'm playing the new Rise of The Triad and there's an ENTIRE level based around the premise of jumping puzzles, avoiding traps, instadeath, bottomless pits and almost no combat whatsoever. On top of all this crap, some idiot thought it's going to make the game more 'hardcore' if they don't implement quicksave.

First of all, what the fuck? It's clear to anyone with half a brain that what the game excels at shooting, and without seeing the rest of your body to precisely judge your position and VERY tight controls, you won't be able to properly jump anywhere. So... Entire. Level? ... Seriously?

Second, I would kind of understand doing this if the game featured a proper save function - like the original Rise of The Triad, which, you know, HAD PROPER SAVE FUNCTION - but nah, if you slip on your invisible feet from a platform which is roughly 0,5 * 0,5 meter large and is moving while you're trying to hit it, you're going to retry the entire thing from the last checkpoint. Just what. The. Hell.

Just... Guys? Oldschool design doesn't necessarily mean GOOD design. There are things that are good to be rid of.

Anyway, just so this topic has a point, what's your worst experience with similar terribad design? You don't necessarily need to limit yourself to platform sections in an FPS games, but it would be nice to limit ourselves to FPS in general. Like that escort mission in Metro 2033. grr.
Posted February 12, 2014
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Fenixp: snip
I won't necessarily mention my worst experience, because it's been safely forgotten into the deep realms of my mind, locked away for the sake of sanity. I will mention my most recent though; Wolfenstein 3D has caused me an endless amount of grief with enemies able to shoot me from corners while I can't.

And since you mention Rise of the Triad (2013), I will instead point you to the expansion of the original Rise of the Triad, Extreme Rise of the Triad. On one hand, it's better than the reboot because you have quicksaves. On the other hand, you have platforming sections when you are not able to even jump! Gee, what fun! :D
Post edited February 12, 2014 by Grargar
Posted February 12, 2014
Yeah, you would think they would have learned after Daikatana...

And I think Daikatana easily is my worst experience. There was so many platforming sections with insta-death in that game, it's not even funny. Not to mention I made it worst, because "patching" was still a foreign concept to me at that time, so I had to collect save crystals (which were very rare) and choose between saving right before a deadly platforming section or right after. It was a lose-lose situation.
Posted February 12, 2014
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Grargar: ...
Yeah, I'm not saying the original was much better in this respect :-P Still, at that time, first person shooters was a genre still in its infancy and the designers kind of didn't really know better. Nowadays, however, when a designer mentions first person platforming in a game not designed around doing just that, spikes should grow out of his spine and he should lost his ability to design shit until he purges his brain of this idea.

Now I'm not saying first person platforming can't work, it worked quite well in Mirror's Edge for example, but you need to be aware of your body in the game.
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logorouge: ...
Save crystals are pretty much what instantly moved Daikatana from 'I'm kind of interested' section of my brain into 'Nope.'
Post edited February 12, 2014 by Fenixp
Posted February 12, 2014
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Fenixp: Save crystals are pretty much what instantly moved Daikatana from 'I'm kind of interested' section of my brain into 'Nope.'
They did patch in an option for unlimited saves later on, so future generations wouldn't have to deal with that. Does that move it back to the "interested" section? :)
Posted February 12, 2014
There were some horrific platforming parts in Postal 2...
Posted February 12, 2014
I remember that part. I used the fly cheat code and skipped it.
Posted February 12, 2014
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Fenixp: So, I'm playing the new Rise of The Triad and there's an ENTIRE level based around the premise of jumping puzzles, avoiding traps, instadeath, bottomless pits and almost no combat whatsoever. On top of all this crap, some idiot thought it's going to make the game more 'hardcore' if they don't implement quicksave.

First of all, what the fuck? It's clear to anyone with half a brain that what the game excels at shooting, and without seeing the rest of your body to precisely judge your position and VERY tight controls, you won't be able to properly jump anywhere. So... Entire. Level? ... Seriously?

Second, I would kind of understand doing this if the game featured a proper save function - like the original Rise of The Triad, which, you know, HAD PROPER SAVE FUNCTION - but nah, if you slip on your invisible feet from a platform which is roughly 0,5 * 0,5 meter large and is moving while you're trying to hit it, you're going to retry the entire thing from the last checkpoint. Just what. The. Hell.

Just... Guys? Oldschool design doesn't necessarily mean GOOD design. There are things that are good to be rid of.

Anyway, just so this topic has a point, what's your worst experience with similar terribad design? You don't necessarily need to limit yourself to platform sections in an FPS games, but it would be nice to limit ourselves to FPS in general. Like that escort mission in Metro 2033. grr.
What I don't understand is that oldschool design did have proper saves; checkpoints are console design.

I quicksaved my way through that bit. Got a poor level score, but at least I could then enjoy the rest of the game. Apart from the final boss fight. God that was hard without being allowed to save during it.
Posted February 12, 2014
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Licurg: There were some horrific platforming parts in Postal 2...
you may say that Postal 2 is entirely made up of some pretty horrific parts...


but yes, FPS and platforming very rarely works.
Posted February 12, 2014
Metroid Prime is as much, if not more, a 3D platformer as it is a shooter, and it had you looking downward slightly as you landed, which would be the natural thing to do when one is jumping around I guess... so you can see where you are jumping...

I think as a 3D platformer, Metroid Prime worked very well, I had no problems at all with aspect of the game...

But of course, 3D platforming with analog input such as the thumbstick of the Gamecube controller is much different than with non-analog input such as the WASD keys of a keyboard...
Posted February 12, 2014
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Licurg: There were some horrific platforming parts in Postal 2...
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amok: you may say that Postal 2 is entirely made up of some pretty horrific parts...
Of course a sissy like you would think so...
Posted February 12, 2014
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logorouge: Yeah, you would think they would have learned after Daikatana...

And I think Daikatana easily is my worst experience. There was so many platforming sections with insta-death in that game, it's not even funny. Not to mention I made it worst, because "patching" was still a foreign concept to me at that time, so I had to collect save crystals (which were very rare) and choose between saving right before a deadly platforming section or right after. It was a lose-lose situation.
Hmm okay.. For the record i am probably one of 5 persons on planet earth that actually like daikatana, so keep that in mind when i try to defend it ;)

I finished daikatana probably 6 times (had it a year after release ,Retail, i think) and finished it once again october (i think) last year. Which level are you talking about?? platforming wise? As far as i know there are no such levels. The last level has some platforming but when you fuck up you get sent to the beginning of the platforming section without using a save crystal. As far as the save Crystals goes: they patched that out and to be honest i have Always played it with that option on. There are many save Crystals (I Always have 3, the maximum, in my inventory and when i have a new one: I save) and the game autosaves between the levels.

I am really interested to know which level has so many platforming because right now I can't think of any...


ON TOPIC: yeah that platforming level in rise of the triad 2013 annoyed me to. Usually I don't mind them and hardly have any problems with them but that level was just terrible. Loved the rest of the game though.
Post edited February 12, 2014 by xxxIndyxxx
Posted February 12, 2014
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Fenixp: So, I'm playing the new Rise of The Triad and there's an ENTIRE level based around the premise of jumping puzzles, avoiding traps, instadeath, bottomless pits and almost no combat whatsoever. On top of all this crap, some idiot thought it's going to make the game more 'hardcore' if they don't implement quicksave.
That level sucks, yeah. But they did add in quicksaves in a patch. I've played with them. Are you fully patched up?

There was one FPS that I got because everything I read seemed to like it and said it was like Blood. Dark Salvation, claiming to be and old-school FPS. I still haven't beat the first shitty level. It has jumping puzzles, over lava, with seemingly every door on a timer, you have to break these crystals to beat the level, there are insta-death pits you have to do some ladder fuckery to get over, the levels are super long, and it doesn't have a proper save system. It doesn't tell you it doesn't either, there's a save option in the menu, so you save it and shit, and then you die after getting fairly far, and expect to load up where you saved it, right? Fucking wrong. It starts you at the beginning of the level. I actually sent an email to the developers thinking it was a bug or something. Apparently it was a deliberate design choice to replicate the old school games. Fucking bullshit, it was. Blood, Duke, Doom, Quake, all have save anywhere systems. Even Wolfenstein 3D did!
Posted February 12, 2014
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logorouge: Yeah, you would think they would have learned after Daikatana...

And I think Daikatana easily is my worst experience. There was so many platforming sections with insta-death in that game, it's not even funny. Not to mention I made it worst, because "patching" was still a foreign concept to me at that time, so I had to collect save crystals (which were very rare) and choose between saving right before a deadly platforming section or right after. It was a lose-lose situation.
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xxxIndyxxx: Hmm okay.. For the record i am probably one of 5 persons on planet earth that actually like daikatana, so keep that in mind when i try to defend it ;)

-snip-

I am really interested to know which level has so many platforming because right now I can't think of any...
Fellow Daikatana fan here. The only difficult platforming section I recall was the 'training area' of the last level. It was so over the top that it is was fun.
Posted February 12, 2014
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xxxIndyxxx: Hmm okay.. For the record i am probably one of 5 persons on planet earth that actually like daikatana, so keep that in mind when i try to defend it ;)

-snip-

I am really interested to know which level has so many platforming because right now I can't think of any...
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Snickersnack: Fellow Daikatana fan here. The only difficult platforming section I recall was the 'training area' of the last level. It was so over the top that it is was fun.
Yeah that was the one i was talking about and like I said: you respawn for free at the beginning of each section and each section is about 3 jumps or something so not too bad...
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)First Person Shooter platforming sections(57 posts)(57 posts)
(57 posts)