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General discussion (archive)GOG.com Joins Opposition to SOPA & PIPA(243 posts)(243 posts)
(243 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted January 13, 2012
You may recall that last year TheEnigmaticT was interviewed by Destructoid about SOPA and PIPA. We played things a bit close to the chest in that interview (TheEnigmaticT comes by his nickname honestly) because we are a Polish company and politics, legislation, and government actions of other countries aren’t generally something we feel we should comment on.

But the more we see that it looks like the US Congress may pass or [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_IP_Act]PIPA, the more we feel that we need to speak out. It’s impossible to say what impact that legislation could have on a global company like GOG.com, but we have a platform that can reach out to many gamers who will be effected by this, so we need to let you know about what SOPA and PIPA are and why, if you’re American, you should be worried about them.

What are SOPA and PIPA? These are two different bills that have a stated goal of providing the US government and various IP rightsholders with tools to curb piracy and copyright infringement online. Many web giants, including Amazon, Google, Twitter, Reddit, and eBay have stressed how worried they feel about SOPA and PIPA, because while it is a method to reduce piracy and infringement, it is probably not a good one.

Will SOPA/PIPA work? It might, depending on your definition of “work.” It will put the power over what content is available on the Internet very firmly into the hands of people who are rights-holders--or who claim to be. It will restrict the scope of legitimate content allowed on websites in ways we probably don’t even know yet. A few examples of what might change if SOPA is passed: it could kill streaming of game footage or even game-chat, radically alter how your favorite user-generated content websites--including the GOG.com forums--function, and finally, it may well undermine the basic structure of the Internet.

Will SOPA/PIPA stop piracy? No. SOPA works in a fashion similar to DRM, if you ask us: it only will have an effect on people who are, by and large, honest consumers. Pirates who torrent via P2P methods will not be inconvenienced in the least by SOPA and PIPA; people who post “let’s play” walkthroughs of video games on YouTube, though, may be.

GOG.com is opposed to piracy and copyright infringement, but we know that there are good way to try and reduce piracy and bad ones. GOG.com will always oppose anti-piracy methods that threaten user privacy and freedom. We will always stay DRM-free and apply ‘same game-same price’ policy. We will always put trust in our users as the best method of fighting piracy.

SOPA is not the way to fix the problem of piracy. If you agree with us, don’t just send a tweet or shake your head in anger. Do something. Contact your congressperson or representative and tell them in no uncertain terms that you oppose this bill. There’s a chance that SOPA won’t be as bad as organizations like the EFF and Wikimedia foundations say it is, but you only have one chance to stop this before it happens.
Posted January 14, 2012
Cheers GOG!
Posted January 14, 2012
I applaud you, GOG.

If anyone here lives in New York City and wants to protest against these bills, the NY Tech Community is organizing a protest outside of the offices of senators Charles Schumer and Kirsten Gillibrand on Wednesday, Jan 18th.
I don't know if non-members of the NY Tech Community are invited to join the protest, but I'm going anyway, (I'm not a member myself,) since I feel this matter is so important I want to show my disdain and opposition wherever I can.

More detailed information on when & where below:
Wednesday, Jan 18th 2012 - 12:30-2:00PM
780 3rd Ave (at 49th street)
Nearest subway-stop - 4, 5, 6 trains stop at 51st & Lexington

Here's the link to the event page:
http://www.meetup.com/ny-tech/events/47879702/

Just to make it clear - this event is NOT organized by me, I am only spreading the word. If you have any questions regarding the protest you must direct them at the organizers, NOT me. (Their names are found at the bottom of the Meetup event.)
Posted January 14, 2012
Thank you GOG for joining the fight against oppression and fascism. Because these laws are nothing more than fascist ones. In the past they use to censor books and the press, now trying to censor the Internet. If this pass US should stop bashing other countries, like China and Iran, for oppressing the freedom and censoring the Internet. Congratulation to all our ignorant politicians and to us, the "sheep" who follow the blindly.
Here is a link that explains what might happens if these laws pass:
http://americancensorship.org/infographic.html
GOG you and other companies that oppose it should add a banner in your front page, so everyone will be informed.
Posted January 14, 2012
Lol, these guys should do a quick search on the net before they give names to these law projects, to see if they mean anything in other languages.
I wish you good luck in your crusade to stop SOUP and KITE.
Posted January 14, 2012
It's about time more people outside the U.S. made a stand against SOPA - in a chilling prelude UK citizens are beginning to be face extradition orders for supposed "copyright" infringement.

Sadly, it looks like this draconian bill will be passed and will have massive implications for everyone. We need to do everything we can to oppose, undermine and defeat this "law".

Thank you gog.com for your commitment.
Posted January 14, 2012
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Clawdeath: Lol, these guys should do a quick search on the net before they give names to these law projects, to see if they mean anything in other languages.
Trouble is, they wouldn't be able to name them at all if they would make sure that whatever they choose should be gibberish regardless of the language.

Of course, I do agree that SOPA is a "piece of garbage", so it's quite fitting in my language (hmm, could be "sweep" too, but that makes less sense). PIPA is "pipe", as in what classy men smoke, and well... I do hope it kills whoever uses it.
Post edited January 14, 2012 by Miaghstir
Posted January 14, 2012
Well it was a matter of time, before such laws come to other countries...
But they really should look at what happened in other countries...
Inneficient, unjust, and more importantly very costly...
I mean, here in france hadopi passed but nothing much really happened in regard to piracy... Oh yes, people that new nothing about hiding themselves learned about it, and real actors were mostly unnafected...
They will congratulate themselves when they will see a brief but strong decrease in piracy and then peoples wil just get back to it...
Even though it's a great idea, i don't believe in a global license, but there are some other ways and gog is a proof of it...
Posted January 14, 2012
Good to know gog opposes this mess
Posted January 14, 2012
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2012/01/14/obama-administration-responds-we-people-petitions-sopa-and-online-piracy


SOPA and PIPA are now officially protested by the President and his staff.
Posted January 14, 2012
GOG's position seems reasonable, and I appreciate that they recognize this is an American bill and we Americans will figure out our own laws, thanks very much. Personally, though I believe SOPA isn't perfect, I believe there IS an urgent need to protect IP, and it's probably a good first step. It's not a sufficient argument to say "it's not going to totally stop piracy, so it shouldn't be done." Our legislators have a responsibility to protect the rights of Americans as best they can, and that includes IP rights. I very rarely agree with the AFL-CIO, but this guy's got it right:

'The AFL-CIO's Paul Almeida, arguing in favor of SOPA, has stated that free speech was not a relevant consideration, because "The First Amendment does not protect stealing goods off trucks."'

I understand that many disagree with this, but let's take a step back - it allows a judge to issue a court order to shut down American access to a website. It's overblown to call it "fascism" or "slavery" or anything of the sort. For those addicted to inflammatory rhetoric, I'll suggest that making a lucid argument is far more effective than foaming at the mouth.
Posted January 14, 2012
@QC "SOPA and PIPA are now officially protested by the President and his staff." Thanks for posting the link. It doesn't look much like a protest, though. That letter is basically telling protesters what they want to hear, but if you read it finely, it basically says the same thing that SOPA supporters have been saying all along ("We don't want to limit freedom of speech or break the Internet, but we need to protect piracy.") SOPA supporters have claimed all along that it won't limit free speech or break the Internet, and clearly they have no idea that it will. So this is just another voice saying the same thing but supporting legislation that will do just that.

@maxwell97 Perhaps you haven't read enough about SOPA to appreciate its consequences. You seem to have fallen for what these people want you to think. You quote Almeida who equates SOPA to stopping people from stealing off trucks, but it is nothing like that. The problem is what these people define as "stealing". For example, SOPA makes it a felony to post videos to YouTube with your kids singing any copyrighted song, or having a copyrighted song in the background. It also lets the US DOJ shut down an entire domain even if one page is accused of having copyrighted content. Also, your facts are wrong:
"it allows a judge to issue a court order to shut down American access to a website"
False -- it allows a judge to issue a court order to shut down WORLDWIDE ACCESS to a website. That is why we non-Americans need to oppose this bill too -- it isn't just going to break the US Internet (as if there is such a thing). It's going to break the whole Internet. What you're reading is that SOPA will allow the court to remove American DNS records. But because most of the DNS servers are in the United States, this means they could prevent worldwide access to a server by removing it from a US domain registrar.
Posted January 14, 2012
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maxwell97: GOG's position seems reasonable, and I appreciate that they recognize this is an American bill and we Americans will figure out our own laws, thanks very much. Personally, though I believe SOPA isn't perfect, I believe there IS an urgent need to protect IP, and it's probably a good first step. It's not a sufficient argument to say "it's not going to totally stop piracy, so it shouldn't be done." Our legislators have a responsibility to protect the rights of Americans as best they can, and that includes IP rights. I very rarely agree with the AFL-CIO, but this guy's got it right:

'The AFL-CIO's Paul Almeida, arguing in favor of SOPA, has stated that free speech was not a relevant consideration, because "The First Amendment does not protect stealing goods off trucks."'

I understand that many disagree with this, but let's take a step back - it allows a judge to issue a court order to shut down American access to a website. It's overblown to call it "fascism" or "slavery" or anything of the sort. For those addicted to inflammatory rhetoric, I'll suggest that making a lucid argument is far more effective than foaming at the mouth.
So where is the truck and where is the good "stolen" off the truck?

Copyright Infringement != Theft

Theft requires that one entity is deprived of a tangible object. Copyright infringement does not deprive the owner of the IP that IP. It is not in any rational sense equivalent to someone taking a CD from a store.

There is no "urgent" need to protect it beyond what tools they have available. If they find that it's *crocodile tear* soooo expensive and time consuming to use Due Process *crocodile tear*, I couldn't care less. If you don't want to spend the money necessary and want to foist off the cost of doing so onto everyone else, then that IP needs to enter into the Public Domain as soon as the first time the Public is on the hook for its protection.

You want to make a start at it? How about revisiting and making rational punishments rather than millions of dollars for people downloading a torrent? When someone can go into a store and physically deprive that store of a tangible good offers LESS punishment than making a 1:1 copy that deprives no one of no physical object, something is seriously fucked up. You want the millions of dollars? Go after the ones SELLING copies, not some kid on TPB. Oh, and the very real problem of counterfeit medications is nowhere near the same "problem" of someone putting a copy of Mad Men on the interwebz, yet they are lumped into the same category and equivocated.
Post edited January 14, 2012 by Fomalhaut30
Posted January 14, 2012
@mgiuca: Okay, I'm looking through the text of the bill:

[url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.3261]http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.3261[/url]:

I don't see anything about making anything a felony that isn't already. I don't see anything about punishing people for posting something like videos on a website. I don't see anything that allows DOJ to shut down a domain without an okay from a judge. And I don't see anything about removing DNS registrations. Please point out what I'm missing.

@Fomalhaut30: "Theft requires that one entity is deprived of a tangible object."

That's not really true. The US Constitution gives Congress the power "o promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries". So, it's well within the authority of Congress to treat unauthorized use of IP as "theft"; no "tangible object" is required. (Unless you're talking about the semantics of "theft" as opposed to some other description of the illegal activity, but regardless, it's illegal and SHOULD be illegal.)
Post edited January 14, 2012 by maxwell97
Posted January 14, 2012
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maxwell97: @mgiuca: Okay, I'm looking through the text of the bill:

[url=http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.3261]http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c112:H.R.3261[/url]:

I don't see anything about making anything a felony that isn't already. I don't see anything about punishing people for posting something like videos on a website. I don't see anything that allows DOJ to shut down a domain without an okay from a judge. And I don't see anything about removing DNS registrations. Please point out what I'm missing.

(i) IN GENERAL- A service provider shall take technically feasible and reasonable measures designed to prevent access by its subscribers located within the United States to the foreign infringing site (or portion thereof) that is subject to the order, including measures designed to prevent the domain name of the foreign infringing site (or portion thereof) from resolving to that domain name's Internet Protocol address. Such actions shall be taken as expeditiously as possible, but in any case within 5 days after being served with a copy of the order, or within such time as the court may order.
There's your DNS blocking/removal.

`(B) by the reproduction or distribution, including by electronic means, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copies or phonorecords of 1 or more copyrighted works, or by the public performance by means of digital transmission, during any 180-day period, of 1 or more copyrighted works, when the total retail value of the copies or phonorecords, or of the public performances, is more than $1,000; or
And there's your bit about posting videos/recordings.

"That's not really true. The US Constitution gives Congress the power "o promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries". So, it's well within the authority of Congress to treat unauthorized use of IP as "theft"; no "tangible object" is required. (Unless you're talking about the semantics of "theft" as opposed to some other description of the illegal activity, but regardless, it's illegal and SHOULD be illegal.) "

No, it really isn't. Copyright is only that, the right to make copies. You are infringing a Right by doing so. You aren't depriving them of anything more than a POSSIBLE sale. That's it.

And since that Limited Time bit is going closer and closer to infinity, why should anyone respect copyright? If they are unwilling to allow stuff to fall into the Public Domain, why should we give two shits about their profits?

Regardless, I'm not going to waste any further time arguing with someone who has drunk the beverage of copyright infringement equaling physically taking something from a store.
Post edited January 14, 2012 by Fomalhaut30
Posted January 14, 2012
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mgiuca: @QC "SOPA and PIPA are now officially protested by the President and his staff." Thanks for posting the link. It doesn't look much like a protest, though. That letter is basically telling protesters what they want to hear, but if you read it finely, it basically says the same thing that SOPA supporters have been saying all along ("We don't want to limit freedom of speech or break the Internet, but we need to protect piracy.") SOPA supporters have claimed all along that it won't limit free speech or break the Internet, and clearly they have no idea that it will. So this is just another voice saying the same thing but supporting legislation that will do just that.
Not quite, while the Whitehouse's response may not be a complete revocation of the idea of passing legislation to combat piracy - it does stipulate that many of the things in the SOPA/PIPA (DNS blocking, lack of due process, targeting of domestic sites, etc ...) are not acceptable. Essentially, the response seems to be supporting the OPEN bill rather than PIPA/SOPA. (Without explicitly saying so of course, giving the Whitehouse political "maneuvering" room)
Post edited January 14, 2012 by crazy_dave
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General discussion (archive)GOG.com Joins Opposition to SOPA & PIPA(243 posts)(243 posts)
(243 posts)