Hey, no hard feelings, mate. You have to be a bit aggressive to get anywhere in this game.

As for the vote for Jess... Looks like I won't be switching wagons any time soon.

That you are. But I still can't quite figure you out, Vítek.

@ Vitek - No - I hadn't noticed tbh - so much for provoking reaction there then...;o)

Typhoon has been active in the other game within the last two days - not that makes him particularly more suspicious in this one. Ole Ghost has come over all ghostly as well, and seems to have stepped right back from the front line after the first day debacle.

@Baz - no hard feelings at all - I agree with going at it hard as well. Otherwise you get nowhere - the whole idea is to provoke reaction and wait for slip-ups.

Gonna have to have a good read back on some of the other people - getting nowhere at minute. My main suspects have had either the wagon come crashing to a halt or just not been around...

Well, I'd definitely like to hear from the less active members a bit more before this deadline.

The deadline is not definite, an extension might be granted if requested and/or I find it necessary.

Also, in about a week I'm going out of the country for a while. I'll still be around, but not as regularly as I usually am. As such, votecounts, night/day scenes, and other moderator responsibilities might take a little while.

I don't really have anything new to report... I guess it's probably the fact that some others haven't been as active, so there's less information to go round, and with less information to go around fewer people are contributing, kind of a bad cycle.

Anyway, just wanting to say something... basically my top suspects are Typhoon, Orry, and Nazarush (can't give you a specific reason though, it's just a vibe I'm getting).

Baz, you want some wild accusations? Let me give it a try... Orryyrro, I'm not sure I get why you voted for Robbeasy. I mean, you've only made 3 votes, one for Damnation with no reason, one for Ghost with a semi-valid reason, but the one for Rob... I dunno, I didn't think you were suspecting him in the first place, at least I don't remember any indication of that. It was also a new vote amidst a discussion on your role claim. Seems like you just hastily said 'I agree with baz,' and offered no opinions of your own. An attempt to get a bandwagon again Rob going to get the heat off yourself?

Damnation, like I had said, I suspected that either Ghost or Damnation was mafia from the way they were talking to one another, probably not both though, Ghost's reaction to Damnation's lynch made me stop suspecting her for a while, and I still suspect her, but my vote for her wasn't doing anything. My other major suspect is Robbeasy, he strikes me as off, his reaction to my claim is kind off odd, and now with Ghost's defence of him I'm beginning to think they're both in it.

Ok, I have no idea who to vote . :(

I have to take off in 10 minutes or so so I'll try to get back to this one later tonight once I get back home if I can find the time, else it'll be tomorrow morning.

I still will be happy to be replaced in either game if the mods think I'm flaking (likely won't be the last time) but I'll try to keep posting until they find replacements (and then the next time I do a 72-hour poof and they have a replacement they can take my spot or something).

Like her sentiment, our (me, Ghost) votes for each other are going nowhere and we probably burnt each other out arguing with each other, and we need to consolidate our votes somewhere with 5 days left, so I'll find somewhere else to put it in a few hours unless anyone else wants to buy my case on her total flop in playstyle. We can let the town decide who is scummier between us another day.

OK - total meta gaming here - Jess, you have all the time in the world to make a detailed analysis in the other game, with quoted posts and reasoned argument, to bring down the hammer.

In this game, you claim not to have time, and leave it up to others to decide - scummy behaviour in itself, but coupled with the other games posting and the fact you are up near the top of the list for me anyway. I am aware you have been absent for a while, but I think you thought you had a great chance to use it to your advantage here in this game.

Confirm my vote for Jesskitten - this time for a reason!

Hey, I made that post first (it was on top in my Favourite Topics list), and by the time I got to this thread it was near the end of the day. It's not like I've been posting there over the weekend and not here, I think I was more inactive in that game than this one! :P

But whatever. Gotta catch the bus. Ciao!

OK, here are some of my opinions.

Nazarush - Doesn't post too much. Most of his posts are votes or unvotes. Though he at least provides reasoning. Doesn't participate in discussion otherwise. Possible scum, mostly for his lurking.

GoJays - Quite similar to Nazarush. Was active on Day 1 but almost disappeared on Day 2. Goes into discussions more than Nazarush. Less scummy than Naz.

Typhoon - The same applies. Inactive a lot but each time he is called upon something he is around to participate. When he was called on his inactivity he was over-defensive and haven't managed it too well. Big suspect. FOS:Typhoon

rooshandark - Lurking, not participating much. Spite voting on day 1. Though he is doublevoter. This means almost 100% town.

bazilišek - Nothing suspicious so far. Contributes to discussions, provides reasonable arguments, did nothing strange so far. Don't like his asking for deadline, it's just no to me. His play varies from game 2 but I suppose he learnt from his mistakes. :-) He out himself today by buying "Mafia trainer", though. Scum identified! unbolded vote:bazilišek /endjoke

Robbeasy - Well, well, I don't know. His miscount I don't like at all. Seems he wanted to get Damnation lynched as soon as possible and jumped on him when he looked like easy prey. Next, there is his town assuring. My experiences are minimal but I read some games on MTGS and most people who reassured everybody they are townies were often scums. Though I can barely take it as rule of thumb. Quite defensive on bazilišek's accusations. I know this is not exactly enough, there is a bit more. Mostly his voting patterns. I go here a lot with my feelings too. He is my number 2 scum right now. FOS:Robbeasy

GhostQlyph - Did a lot of accusations, mostly responsible for Damantion mislynch. Tried to be much more careful which is quite sensible way. I read her mostly as town with good intentions gone wrong but I have problem with her votes on day 2. First she votes bazilišek in post 189 and as soon as he posts his analysis she jumps for it completly change her stance on him and firmly votes Jess as she has been pointed out as possible mafia by bazilišek in post 191. It's too much of blind following. That's minus point but not enough to mark you as scum right now. As Jess she has not a lot of time to play right now which hurts the game. Neutral leaning town for me.

JessKitten - Participates in discussion with mostly good arguments, tries to identify scums. Overall townie vibes from her. Sometimes tries (or tried) too much to convince people of the "right way". One problem is voting Roosh in day first on random vote stage. It was 4th vote which had no reason whatsoever. Though it's was not dangerous for roosh yet, why put someone to L-3 in RVS? I'd like explanation but I unfortunately won't get it anymore I think. As Ghost quite neutral to me, leaning town.
Less town than Ghost though.

Orryyrro - Most has been stated before. Asking for investigation, quite a post hopping on day 1 and unconvincing claim with no flavour. TYphoon said he likes it because it differs. I don't like it for the same reason. Such claim is almost ceratin no to be counter-claimed. Similary to Jess voted roosh on RVS and put his votecount on 3. It's not desireful on RVS in my eyes. Note that though he posts more than Nazarush or Typhoon he does only because he needs often to defend himself, otherwise he would propably be lurker too. All of this adds up to huge suspicion.

To sum it up, right now I have got 3 big suspects. Typhoon, Robbeasy and Orryyrro. Those I would have no hesistation to vote. Though only one can be honored. It will be the number 1 scum to me.I know I am a bit too late to party but now I am fairly convinced to do this. Vote:Orryyrro

My reads on people:

Vitek
Neutral leaning town, I think you put too much effort on trying to link past MTG games with this one, though I see you questioning people and I like your latest post (#374, just above this) from a content perspective. I'm going to make a list too!

Typhoon45, Nazarush, GoJays2025
Don't have too much on you, but if you are looking for something to say, how about this, post your scum/town reads on people and why. It's near the end of D2 anyway and there's been plenty of content to go on. Just general impressions if nothing else, so you at least leave a paper trail and generate discussion. I'm neutral leaning town on GoJays out of the three, because while he doesn't have much to say, his last posts have at least been trying. But digging deep here to find something to say. The other two, well, will eventually fall to Lynch All Lurkers if they don't post.

Rooshandark
Town, doublevoter ability has been proven and unless he makes an extremely bad slip, I just don't see Mafia just getting a doublevoter in a small game. But Roosh, why is Baz the main suspect if you get killed (#356), just because he asked you to test the vote? I don't get the jump in logic. I mean, everyone knew you were a doublevoter and they were trying to disprove the theory that you were a lesser-powered variant of it, which would have made you more likely to be scum.

Bazilisek
Most likely town, as he's probably put in the most effort to scumhunt out of anyone here. I thought he was potentially scum early on because of his agreement with Ghost, but their views have since diverged, and his play in general is too un-careful to be scum. I could list examples but this post is long enough without me highlighting town quotes as well as scum.

Orryyrro
The claim is.. weird. I haven't decided if it's too weird to be fake, but I'm leaning toward townie as I don't actually feel your general play has been scummy. Of course, I'm biased since I'm caught up in that investigation crap with you. Not that I'm rolefishing or anything but is anyone else out there something else other than an actual person/character? Just a yes if you are, don't say what you are, and I think that would help solidify Orry's claim (and tie him to you if you're lying, down the road). I think that's probably the best way to verify his claim that I can think of at the moment. Are you sure you're not the comic book character Union Jack (that Wikipedia turns up)? :P

GhostQlyph
I still find you scummy on your D2 play, with the flipflop and the appealing to the town's emotions with regard to the mislynch. You bring it up every single opportunity you get and you misrepresent my earlier arguments in your after accusing me in your prior post of not commenting on it. I've explained myself many times and it's beating my head against a wall here. It's not that I'm not commenting on it, but rather that you don't like my answer and are trying to push my lynch really, really hard for some inexplicable reason. You also seem to be very sure of people's alignments, buddying up to Baz and Robb as being 100% town based on their posting. and I've already pointed out contradictions (like saying I did "loads of bandwagoning and "safe" votes." in [url=http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/gog_mafia_3_jacks_of_all_trades/post178]#178 when I only had two votes in D1, and one was reaction fishing in RVS.).

However, granted that I think you're scum, I realise that of course you're never going to be convinced whatever I say. I don't think most of the rest of the town agrees though, despite neither of us having other votes on us besides a pressure post-now one by Robb, and one from Orry that's now gone, so we can agree to disagree.

What is your opinion on Orry now? And if he is lynched, what's your opinion of me if he a) flips scum, b) flips town?


Robbeasy
I think you're scummy partly by extension of my GhostQlyph read. It's fairly obvious the Orry cop thing was related to Damnation already having claimed scum, and obviously it was impossible to be anything orchestrated since he then turned out to be Mafia. So since he's town, the mere fact you're pushing "evidence" that came in from people trying to break the game open after his claim, is scummy at worst, logically flawed at best. I think you, like Ghost, are trying to push for chain mislynches. Besides defending against Baz and Nazarush and a couple others, and an FoS early on on Vitek, and a recent attack on baz for daring to ask about a deadline, you've only attacked us two. After one of us flips town whenever we get lynched, you'll then push for the other no matter the outcome, right?

I wrote this after I wrote Ghost's, so I'll ask you the same thing, but expanded:
If Orry flips scum/town, what are your feelings on me?
If I flip scum/town, what are your feelings on Orry?
Your "suspect list" has all been based upon the wagon of a player who outright claimed scum, and you neglect to mention or address that I was the very first vote on him besides Roosh's nmillar/Damnation doublevote for voting him early in the game.

I like posts like #234, where you say things like,
And you paint me Mafia for the exact same reason you paint her Town, attacking someone else. Very selective tunnelling, and you actually find her flip flopping and contradictory reactions as a towntell. You've been best buds with her all game, doing Chainsaw Defence for her in posts like , and even though you claim to back off a bit in the face of vote analysis in [url=http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/gog_mafia_3_jacks_of_all_trades/post238]#238, your followup posts have all been absolutely assured that she is town.

--- Hypothesis paragraph only, musing about mason talk that was already brought up ---
There is definitely something fishy going on between you two, and I don't know if it's masons, as Ghost already hinted at, or scum pretending to be masons, as they essentially would do the same kind of buddy-buddy alliance thing going on. I'm more inclined to say scum because I believe Ghost is as scummy as she seems to think I am as well. Because even on the wild hypothesis that you are masons, that doesn't mean anyone attacking your partner is automatically scum. If you are scum, however, you would definitely be interested in preservation of your group, because you have much lower numbers and while you don't lose if your mason group gets wiped out, as you still win with the town, you DO lose if your Mafia faction gets wiped out.
--- End of hypothesis paragraph, no rolefishing here ---

Someone may have commented on this already, but this also is worth mentioning,
It is very interesting that you seem to be "expecting" a power role claim. Generally (don't look at GM2, ha!) vanilla townies make up the largest proportion of any game, so logically vanilla IS the expected claim. That's just.. wow. You addressed this a bit in your refutal of baz already, but seriously, don't you think that if you were forced to claim in the future, this would throw suspicion over your claim even if you did claim a power role, cause people would just point back at this? I don't see how that helps town in the least.

It also seems you joined Ghost on my wagon to "start it up" on a very weak case, on just applying to the inactives - when I had already posted that I was away, so perhaps you wanted to try to convince the town to go for a quick mislynch while I was unable to defend myself. Or perhaps it truly was for posting pressure, but really? You hit me to post more over Typhoon, GoJays, Nazarush when I've been yelling at Ghost for the better first half of D2? I don't think that's the true reason, I think you just don't like my pressure on her. Very cute confirm vote. So I guess next time I post, I need to make sure I write up posts for both threads before I post it at once, right? That is blatantly unfair misrepresentation. Allow me to OMGUS, with love.

Unvote, Vote Robbeasy

Wow... awesome post there.

I haven't had much time to really go through and closely examine what you've said, but You're right about Robbeasy's expecting of a power role claim. I thought that to be a little odd too at the time, but didn't comment on it. Vanilla should be the most common of roles, as you said. Also, if he is mafia I doubt he'd claim a power role, since 1) again, they're less plentiful, so it may be suspicious, and 2) it's easy to slip up either immediately (Titanium's claim in game 1 was a pretty extreme case) or further down the line. Vanilla is (or should be) the most common and therefore SAFEST claim - definitely one that I was expecting to see.

As we're on the topic of Orry's claim, I think your point of the name is interesting too. I have never thought about that before. Having Googled my name (didn't recognize it at first) I can confirm my name IS of a real person and DOES have something to do with my character description. Also, of the dead, their names are all taken from other famous Jacks: Jack Morgan (aka JP Morgan Jr) was a real banker; Jack Thompson I can only imagine refers to the infamous activist; and Jack or Raiden from MGS2 as the town jailer... for some reason (never played that game, so I wouldn't know). But... I wonder what kind of a character description there would be to have been named after 'Union Jack'. Also the name doesn't fit with the rest of the Jack _____. Nevertheless, I think my suspicions of Orry has lifted slightly.

Just to clear something up, I am the flag, not a person.

Alright, taking a pretty big risk here but I feel things will go very wrong if I don't.

I'm Jack Black, Town Mason.

I'm sure you can all guess who the other Mason is. If not, I'll let him claim for himself. This ought to clear up any lingering suspicions about buddying and partnerships. I'm very new, currently very busy and I don't know my partner's level of experience but he seems to take a backseat approach to the game. We aren't coordinating very well, honestly, and I've already asked him not to claim once out of fear the Mafia will have a good target in their sights.

This is changing as the votes head his way. Clearly, if it comes down to a fairly likely lynch for him or a possible nightkill for either of us, that is not a hard decision to make.

I am still attached to a team of Vitek, Jess and Orryyrro. This is not likely to change until one of them (or all of them) turn up town. My focus is not likely to change either, because Jess is currently the most irrationally irritated one of the lot in my eyes.

To quell any doubts based on her post which was bent on twisting my words, I stated awhile back that Baz is not one I am 100% sure of, just close. The astute may notice that I was hinting strongly at my role back then, as well.

Now, Baz could be Mafia. I do not think it anywhere near likely. I see no reason to suspect Baz, though others might. I encourage you to convince me. I also see no reason Jess should not be suspected. I also encourage you to convince me of that.

Jess accuses me of flip-flopping. Orryyrro did nothing to convince me he is town, and nowhere did I state he did. I just avoided putting my vote on him, because I don't want to look like a rabid wolf gnawing at the bones of the prior mislynch. I still give reasons others hsould vote for him, and if I feel the rest of the town is sufficiently behind an Orryyrro lynch I may even change my mind about not voting for him.

Some may call that bandwagoning. I call it common sense. I'm not going to take a route guaranteed to make me look like a fanatical witch-hunter (which will only encourage further mislynches of the Damnation sort), but I'm also not going to put the town at risk of being a vote short of lynching someone I suspect as Mafia and then letting the votes scatter.

Finally, to answer Jess: you should be able to glean my opinion of Orry just fine from other parts of my post here. If he flips scum, you're implicated. Not 100% mafia, but you certainly don't look very good. If he flips town that's two mislynches I've helped along and neither I nor anyone else can reasonably consider any of my choices to be realistic: if I have suspicions they will be practically evidence that someone is town. At that point I will probably be forced to resort to unfortunately scummy behavior in the form of avoiding discussion and bandwagon votes, because I do not want to be to blame for anymore mislynches.

I hope that you're satisfied with my answers?