More popularized by call of duty by adding a level up system that does not make you better and perks in Call of Duty 4 and ever since a lot of games particuly in the multiplayer mode have been putting unnecessay rpg elements and not all for the better.

Just look at team fortress 2 the game feels unbalanced and barely has any true teamwork because of the rpg elements (I know there are other factors) and apperently there was bad mouthing about this game Red Orchestra 2 for putting the call of duty features in the multiplayer I.E. level up and perks.

To me it's getting annoying cause now multiplayer is starting to feel like a grind instead of being skilfull and/or full of teamwork.

The thing is that "RPG" elements imo works better for singleplayer games and co-op modes not competitve multiplayer, unless it's an MMORPG ala Everquest, Guild Wars, Diablo, and Warcraft.

There are rpg elements in TF2?

i dont see any leveling up, just item drops which is hardly RPG

That's because very basic grind is what will keep casual players playing, not skill. I really, really liked TF2 until they introduced all that crap too (and since I bought it and liked it in it's former form, now I feel kind of cheated) It's still the same motivator as level ups thou

I disagree. You need to play more Blood Bowl. :)

I think it's rather that tacked-on RPG elements don't work well in a competitive multiplayer environment. If they are an integral part of the game's design (as in Blood Bowl), they hugely contribute to the experience rather than detracting from it.

the hats are not just for aesthetics is there anyway to play basically TF2 vanilla (playing TF2 as how it first released)

No, what you're sick of is tiered multiplayer FPS that use unlocks and other such bullshit to keep people playing. I can agree with that being a problem.

particulaly that I am getting tired of grinding and grinding just to get a new assualt rifle that is probably no different then the assualt rifle I already have. just give me all the weapon load and customizations already. I have not bought battlefield 3 as I have yet to get the next upgrade for my pc's graphics,but tell me does the Hardcore Mode in BF3 does not have any of this grind?

I thought TF2 is a hack and slash game .

I don't know, to be honest. Battlefield doesn't usually, but I also haven't played BF3 yet. From what I've seen the single player is a carbon copy of CoD. So I don't know if I can hold out too much hope for the multiplayer in light of that.

Level ups/loot drops =/= RPG.

RPGs are about making choices and consequences for your actions.

Level up and loot drops are about powering your characters, that might be a consequence of your actions in an RPG but it is not the core of an RPG.

well how I played team fortress 2 it does not make my charcter feel more powerful

Well, that train has left the station. While I agree with your interpretation of RPG, it has become a meaning of its own and that is: Level ups/loot drops = RPG.

Well the thing is that many true RPGs (Diablo, Dungeon Siege, etc) are essentially all about levelups/loot drops! Personally the whole C&C, is not what makes an RPG, a simple adventure game can be all about C&C and posses multiple outcomes but nobody will consider it an RPG.

RPGs are about a) C&C (not just the story but also the way you develop your character at levelup), b) a good character system (which may or may not include actual "levels"), c) interaction and reactivity with the world, d) interaction with NPCs, e) companions and/or party, f) plethora of ways to solve quests... seldom do RPGs fearure ALL of these.

And?


I think the RPG industry (that is the pen and paper games) would argue with you there. There are far more games out now that don't have any distinct level system than their are with a level based systems.
Sure, the leveling games are by far the more widely known about ones but that doesn't them the best representation of a system any more than soaps make the best representation of TV.

Thats why you have your subgenre's - Action Rpg's (ie Hack and Slash -- helluva lot less story) etc