I'm pondering buying a thrustmaster t16000 but I never had a joystick and I'm pondering buying one to play some simulators.

Do you think it's a good joystick?

What kind of games go well with joysticks? I tend to like sci-fi over modern/historic ones, any good recommendations? Are there any games designed with joysticks in mind in development?

That sounds so expensive "joystick" so perhaps it's best to use with flightsimulators.
I mostly thought that nowadays people used real joysticks with flightingsims or.. well.. driving games has the wheel and pedal.
Propably sweet experience if something works with it. =)

Edit: but I haven't played flightsims almost never but it's a sweet dream.. and if I owned three monitors. That could be almost virtual reality. If the two monitors would be side windows.

I've got this one. It's good: precise, solid, acurate - MUCH better than Logitech Wingman Attack 2 I had before. Unfortunately it's also a bit expensive - maybe you should start with sth cheaper but also solid like Thrustmaster T.Flight Stick X? I used it mostly for space sims and similar (Freespace, Aquanox etc). Never tried it in sth more serious (like IL Sturmovik). With EA on board and hopefully Wing Commander coming - joystick is a good investment.

Does it have force feedback?

For Descent or Wing Commander a joystick almost a necessity. Back when they were made it was assumed that most gamers would have one. Strike Commander will also probably be arriving here soon, so a joystick could be a good investment.

The Thrustmaster T.16000-M? No, it doesn't have force-feedback. You'll generally have to spend more than US$40 on a stick to get one capable of true FFB, unless you luck out on getting a Microsoft SideWinder Force-Feedback 2 for under that on eBay. (But don't count on it; those sticks have a diehard following.)

That said, the T.16000-M would be a good starter stick if the MS SWFFB2 isn't available. And for the SKU without HAWX bundled, it's just US$40-pretty cheap if you ask me. (Especially relative to my highly modified Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar + RCS pedal setup, or those packing the newer Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog. This stuff sure gets expensive.)

Force-feedback is a neat feature, and WWI/WWII sim pilots swear by it (as well as DCS: Black Shark players due to the trim system), but it's actually highly unrealistic for a modern jet fighter like an F-16 that uses a force-sensing stick that doesn't move much. (In that case, something like a FCC-or-FSSB-modded Cougar or the Saitek X65-F would be far more realistic, albeit not translating very well to older, twitchier aircraft that demand steady, precise inputs.)

Still, I think a flight stick would be a good investment if you're really into that genre. Start with something basic first, and if you really do get into it, then you can worry about spending extra on a throttle and/or rudder pedals. (But I'd recommend buying a TrackIR first if you're into titles that use it. It'll do wonders for your situational awareness and free up the stick's hat switch for other uses.)

I played Wing Commander 1 and 2 just fine with mouse and keyboard.

I Bought Darkstar One and after playing for awhile I imagine how much more immersive it would feel to play with a joystick. As for force feeback after researching for awhile I found that some games have force feedback and at least two of them I would LOVE to try it.

Star Wars: Rogue Squadron 3D
Star Wars: X-Wing Alliance

I'm a star wars fan, never played X-wing but played rogue squadron alot on my N64 and had gold medals in more than 75% of the missions. Force feedback on those games would be sweet!

As you can see my tastes lean towards sci-fi even if it isn't very realistic, it's all about the immersion and force feedback would be the icing on the cake(Still, I ignore how good it really is in those games).

With that in mind what force feedback enabled joysticks would you guys recommend? Sidewinder would be awesome but I figure that it's not going to be cheap and will be very hard to get new, considering how long it has been since it was released, getting it used isn't such a good idea.

Maybe microsoft will develop another one for their next mechwarrior(which is also being made for x360), one can dream, right?... =P

That's why I said almost. I played with a keyboard and mouse back in the day, but found it much better when I switched to joystick. YMMV, I guess.

I've only used two force-feedback flight sticks: a Logitech WingMan Strike Force 3D, and a 2nd-gen (red stick buttons and light, silver base buttons) Microsoft SideWinder Force-Feedback 2.

I really wanted to like the Strike Force 3D. I really did. FFB motors were strong, it's cheap, and it has a second hat switch in addition to the usual four buttons and main hat switch; very useful in a lot of games. However, it has a very annoying issue with X/Y-axis input. First off, they used cheap pots. Second off, they coupled those cheap pots to the gimbals in a way that if you move the stick only along one axis, it will move the other pot a little, causing unintended input. NOT GOOD. Third, the centering force deadzone has an awful lot of slop, or center play. The motors only kick in when you exceed it, and the feeling is rather jarring.

I have an idea on how to mod the gimbals to not suffer from the X/Y-axis pot problem, but that still won't do anything about the centering force slop.

The Microsoft SWFFB2, on the other hand...it looks like a basic stick. Four buttons and a single hat switch on the stick itself, four more buttons on the base, and a throttle lever. Nothing more, unless you count the standard rudder twist. And, really, it IS a basic stick...but it does the basics VERY well, as you soon find out when using the thing. The centering forces are smooth and rather tight, with practically unnoticeable center play. The X/Y-axes are extremely precise (10-bit resolution/1024 values, actually), with no bleed/interference between them. For some reason, the throttle lever's 7-bit (128 values) and the rudder twist's merely 6-bit (64 values), but they're still free of jitter or other issues. This is why it has a diehard cult following, especially among WWI/WWII prop job pilots who aren't faced with complex avionics nearly as much as needing a very steady stick to line up their bullets with.

Don't count on Microsoft releasing another; they've had a decade to do so and haven't. They'd rather just force everything to use an X360 gamepad at this point, even when it really wouldn't make sense. Even so, if you find a stick in good working order, it should be reliable enough to last you for several years.

As for the actual use of force-feedback, it's rather interesting in that you can set it to be as stiff or flaccid as you want, at least as much as the motors will allow. For instance, some people find CH Products sticks too loose while Thrustmaster sticks are way too stiff, and the sticks in question would usually take some extensive, likely warranty-voiding gimbal mods to tweak. With a FFB stick, you just adjust the force strength in the game/sim as desired, and you're good to go. Some think that the forces get in the way of their input more than anything, but again, set those forces to zero and you're good. It's actually rather helpful for flying on the edge in an old aircraft without stalling, though the gun shake/recoil effects would impede accuracy more than anything. Is that going to help spacecraft? Not one bit, but maybe you WOULD like the gun shake/recoil for all I know.

No, it doesn't.

You are lucky - you live in US. In Poland T.16000 is $50-60 and it's a bargin. I saw them here as high as $80 (not that HAWX bundled) from 'official reseller' etc.

As for Logitech - I had it for maybe 2 years but it was not extensively used. I liked it for its ergonomy, but after some time I started to have problems with dead zone, right turn was faster than left turn etc. I googled a bit and it appeared that it's a standard problem with Logitechs that are 'famous' for their potentiometers quality.

I was also thinking about MS SideWinder (this model with optical potentiometers) but they are hard to get in Poland.

Finally decided to buy that T.16000M and I think it was good decision.

So I guess I will have to get my T160000 ;-)

Before you do - I also recommend checking youtube for video reviews of it. I can't give you a link but I remember watching one movie where guy praised T.16000 sky high and was VERY displeased with his Saitek joystick (I don’t know if you considered Saitek as an alternative).

What is sad is that almost none future games are compatible with Joysticks...