People often say those things about 3e and 3.5e (what me and my friends played was a mix of those two, leaning towards 3e, rather than one or the other) but when we played our games were never like that. Combat never got tiring. We did argue over rules but never very seriously or for too long. If it did go on we played while we argued and it was all good fun. And we roleplayed and everything (though not too seriously most of our time was spent just having fun with it). So what does that mean? Maybe the way we played and rules we enforced left it open for the perfect kind of gameplay for us? Or maybe I just got lucky with the people I played with. Either way, or any other way, people say these things about 3e and 3.5e and I'm mostly just left confused... I understand people may have other opinions or experiences but I haven't been able to understand how its the general rule for most people

So I guess maybe I should ask, what made 3e and 3.5 so bad for everyone?

Recurring NPCs

Also my D&Ds in order: AD&D, D&D 4th Ed., D&D 3/3.5, First Quest, D&D
But I'll always be jaded towards AD&D since I played that one the most.

How did i know this was going to end up an edition war nerd rage fest?


Ah well, I like a good internet pointless argument as much as the next guy who likes one.

I still play 1st and 2nd ed quite a bit.

3rd edition? Bleah. Anything that requires more paperwork to DM then doing my taxes, not my thing.

4th Edition? Double bleah. Less paperwork yeah, but 4th is less about using your imagination and more about having huge lists of superpowers... that you STILL have to look up. And even quick combats take forever.

Gimme Old Skool any day.

So, am I the only old fart who still has a dusty copy of the 2nd Ed. AD&D Deities & Demigods hard cover laying around? :-)

I'm with you on old school preference, but 4th ed combat can go really fast once you have a group that's spent a bit of time together. Even in Dungeon Delves at PAX last year (where the DM tries to kill the party) by the end of the weekend everyone knew their powers and how to handle various situations. We did 1.5 big fights in 30 minutes (occasionally a group would manage 2 combats in the 30 minutes). Give it another shot, I really think you might like it.
Rules lawyering and the crappy content machine got amped up even beyond the 2nd ed levels (which were already absurd) there was literally so much source material it was impossible to play coherently and it wasn't tied together like something like GURPS (which has a strong core mechanic behind it).

Lastly the material seemed to draw in folks who liked combat and not roleplaying, so guess how most groups evolved... yep, towards combat only sessions.

I would say you had an exceptionally good group.

I don't have that one, but I do still have the old Red, Blue, Turquoise, Black & Gold boxes lying around....

Funny, I've heard more people say that 4E is built for 'combat only' and it draws in the 'miniatures player' and 'video gamers', not true roleplayers. >.>

I'm going to solve the "what edition of D&D is better" argument once and for all:
We're all bloody biased creatures so the better editions are driven by our experiences with them. From a 100% unbiased stance, they are all different, with different traits that make them what they are.

The most powerful entity in the D&D universe though.. Well, there's the DM, but I'm not sure he (or she) counts.
A prismatic dracoliche with class levels of sorcerer would definitely rank up there, able to out power even many deities.

The problem is, it;s kinda up to the DM what exists in a universe and what doesn't.. as such, the most powerful thing in the D&D universe is the PCs. Why?

Because PCs can be created at any level, at any power level, their power will only continue to grow as they're in the game. PCs can grow strong enough to kill gods, dragons, and all manner of weird combinations of templates and classes that the DM can come up with.. and any good DM doesn't pit the party against things they -cannot- beat. (unless they weren't supposed ot fight it in the first place. >.>)

Nope...it was ME!
Seriously, nothing could ever whoop me..Show me a dragon or a lich or even a god that has a reload button? ha! I am indomitable! ;)
Of course Boo the hamster is a close second.

Actually I kinda have proof of that... whenever we played we threw the level up once per quest or whatever thing out the window because it's fairly stupid as far as we saw. Anyway my buddy had a sorcerer that when we finally had to reset the entire game world (because of his character) he was some insanely high level (it took years anyway of course)... He had traveled to the nine hells and killed "everyone" and killed just about every other powerful god or whatever in the book too... so at this point it was kinda like..... "Well now what?.... RESET!!" Hahaha Like I said before we just had fun with it

Ah, the old basic sets! Mine are long lost, but I remember them very fondly. Playing modules like B2- Keep on the Borderlands and X2- Castle Amber was a great time.

I'd say it's more than implied, as in at least one of the books it is directly shown.

Agreed! DM, f yeah! lol

I juss bought a whole bunch of 2e sourcebooks last summer!

As for the OP's questions, I think the Planescape setting is too vast to select a most powerful being (as that setting is a bunch of galaxies linked together by magical gates), and I don't know much about Dragonlance, Eberron or oher non-FR worlds.

That being said, in my mind, the most powerful person in the Forgotten Realms in terms of battle (and how they're won or lost) surely is someone who I don't think has any lore write-ups on, and that's whoever runs the Halruaan military. Halruaa is by far & away the most magically advanced nation; is a free country w/happy citizens, strong economy, and strong good-aligned leadership; has an awsome terrain situation w/3 mountain walls surrounding them on the north, east, & west and ocean water bordering the south; and to top it all off, they're the only country to dominate the skies w/their skyships, magically enhanced as they are. And b/c they're so magically forward w/rulers who genuinely care about their citizens & inhabitants, dragons of all peaceable alignments seek to do right by them.

Really, if the guy who runs the Halruaan military wanted to ransack Larloch's domain north of Baldur's Gate, he'd succeed in a big way on his military's first attempt! Not that they'd do that though, as upon reading the little lore available on Larloch and gleaning info about other situations regarding him, he's only evil by unfounded reputation, not in actual works etc. (Of course if you attempt to manipulate him.......)

hell yeah lol

Even more powerful, a certain DM who used to live just north of me.

May he <rolls 20 sided die> rest in peace.