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iainmet: once installed and run for the first time can be played with the Steam client in offline mode. Looking at it that way it is similar to the games explorer built into Vista and Windows 7.
EDIT: Ok, I'll try and be less of a dick.
No, it's really nothing like that.
Post edited February 01, 2012 by SirPrimalform
Dont get me wrong, I dont like heavy handed DRM like Ubisoft with their always on connection or having to be able to log into Uplay before being able to access your games. Securom is also just as bad with the activations and limits.

Not saying you are being a dick. Just trying to put across that Steam in itself isnt to bad a platform, it is really good for content delivery and also keeping your games up to date.

You look at the basic interface on Steam and start it in offline mode you cant access the store, effectively all your games are there in one place ready to run. This is how I see it being like the games explorer on Windows.

Going on that though, one thing that does get my back up is when a Steam game shortcut gets put in your Windows game explorer. You click on it to play and it opens Steam up first before launching the game.
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iainmet: I think what they are trying to do here is get all the mods in one place where people can rate them etc, similar to the way Team Fortress 2 does.
Well, most mods already _are_ in one or two places, and these places have rating systems, discussions, large communities, etc. In which way is adding a _third_ place to the mix achieving the alleged "get all mods in one place" goal?

This service simply isn't needed imho. It has proven to be an additional source of problems and errors for Civ5. I think there was also some contention because some mods weren't allowed on Steam. In any case, I don't need Steam controlling my _mods_ as well, and I would be very reluctant to grant a new quasi-monopoly of control over mods, to exactly the same guys who are already abusing their existing quasi-monopoly on new games.
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iainmet: I dont know why there is so much hatred for Steam, its a great platform that has evolved loads over the past few years. Nearly all the games in their catalogue once installed and run for the first time can be played with the Steam client in offline mode. Looking at it that way it is similar to the games explorer built into Vista and Windows 7.

All your games are in 1 place and ready to launch, you can even add non Steam games to the client. I have added shortcuts to Steam for my GOG games and some of my older titles. Just click play and away I go.
Try installing your Steam games on a rig that has no internet connection. Then try it with your GOG games.

This is my major gripe with Steam and other platforms like it. I don't hate Steam, but I also don't kid myself about exactly what it is: DRM. So I treat any games accordingly and adjust what I'm willing to pay for them ($5 or less) if they're tied to a platform like Steam.

Others have different reasons for hating Steam.
Yeah, but it is going to be of some benefit to users that dont understand the whole mod side of things on the PC. Just tick what you want and it installs it, uncheck it to disable it. I can appreciate your sentiments with regards to the Civ5 fiasco though. I think this whole exercise is to try and make things easier for users.

I use OBMM to control everything in Oblivion and thats what I used to activate Quarls texture pack to update all the visuals. It was easy enough to do and requires very little understanding.
I've just installed the "Nexus mod manager" and I must say, that is damn smooth. I rather use this than the Steam workshop.
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Psyringe: Well, most mods already _are_ in one or two places, and these places have rating systems, discussions, large communities, etc. In which way is adding a _third_ place to the mix achieving the alleged "get all mods in one place" goal?

This service simply isn't needed imho. It has proven to be an additional source of problems and errors for Civ5. I think there was also some contention because some mods weren't allowed on Steam. In any case, I don't need Steam controlling my _mods_ as well, and I would be very reluctant to grant a new quasi-monopoly of control over mods, to exactly the same guys who are already abusing their existing quasi-monopoly on new games.
It sounds quite useful. Automatic download/install is a gigantic improvement over installing mods for Oblivion/Morrowind.

Even if it was horrible, it would still be optional, which makes your complaints about it seem quite petty. Just because you don't like Steam doesn't mean you can't acknowledge that Valve has a good idea now and then.
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Psyringe: Well, most mods already _are_ in one or two places, and these places have rating systems, discussions, large communities, etc. In which way is adding a _third_ place to the mix achieving the alleged "get all mods in one place" goal?
It's basically to get all those on board, who didn't modded before. Just a quick look through steamforums gives you a glance of the "issues" the Joe Averages had or ran into once they tried modding.
Yes, most of those probably fit in the "dumb as a brick" or "barely manages to click install" category. However, you won't get those to experience this new world the old way. Probably not even with the Nexus Mod Manager.

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Psyringe: This service simply isn't needed imho. It has proven to be an additional source of problems and errors for Civ5. I think there was also some contention because some mods weren't allowed on Steam. In any case, I don't need Steam controlling my _mods_ as well, and I would be very reluctant to grant a new quasi-monopoly of control over mods, to exactly the same guys who are already abusing their existing quasi-monopoly on new games.
Not needed - for guys like you and me who modded Bethesda games before: you're right. For all else: you're wrong.
Additional source of problems - can't say I'm experienced enough to judge Steamworks at all. Though it's easy to see that this is THE big chance for Valve to promote / make use of it. So I'd bet they'll run to hell and back to make it as painless as possible.
Some mods weren't allowed - yeah, will certainly happen. However, there are rules / removals on TESnexus too.
Control - as long as mods are also available like before (nexus / PES), which I see no indication of not being or happening so, I don't see the problem.
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Balazs: Sounds like a great idea. I wonder what the people, who think Steam is the embodiment of all evil will say.
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SirPrimalform: I'd say it sounds like a great idea, but it still doesn't justify the DRM. This kind of service could be provided without the hefty DRM.
True, but at least extra services make it a lot easier to forgive the DRM.
Well, I agree that ease of installation is a good thing for modders and players alike - if it works. ;)

However, in the long run, I'm just very skeptical whether modders are well-advised to help increasing the influence and control of a business that only sees their work as a business opportunity. The less modders need to rely on a business to care for them, the better.

I guess part of the reasons for my rejection of this feature is that I _can_ see it become very popular among the less experienced users, which probably form a larger group than the tech-savvy ones, which in turn means that Steam ultimately _will_ become the de facto main platform for mods through sheer force of numbers. This, in turn, provides business opportunities for Steam that a revenue-oriented business is unlikely to ignore. I expect that in some point in the future, Steam will have the opportunity to make decisions that are good for their business, but bad for modders, and I wouldn't expect them to care for the needs of modders if not doing so makes them more money.

Of course, most of this is speculation. I could be totally wrong, and actually I'd appreciate that. However, Steam being Steam, I simply do remain skeptical, and I'd recommend to stay wary.
Post edited February 01, 2012 by Psyringe
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SirPrimalform: I'd say it sounds like a great idea, but it still doesn't justify the DRM. This kind of service could be provided without the hefty DRM.
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Balazs: True, but at least extra services make it a lot easier to forgive the DRM.
Not for me. I see them as completely separate things that happen to be bundled together.
If you put mustard on a turd, would you say it makes the turd more delicious? ;)
Valve probably made this to make it easier for them to find new modding teams that will develop their new games.
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SirPrimalform: I'd say it sounds like a great idea, but it still doesn't justify the DRM. This kind of service could be provided without the hefty DRM.
*hefty* DRM? How much more lightweight DRM would you want, I mean it requires one verification every month or so. Have you ever seen StarForce? :D
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OmegaX: Valve probably made this to make it easier for them to find new modding teams that will develop their new games.
Yea I was just thinking that they're probably waiting with HL3 until someone starts making HL3 mod for HL2
Post edited February 01, 2012 by Fenixp
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SirPrimalform: I'd say it sounds like a great idea, but it still doesn't justify the DRM. This kind of service could be provided without the hefty DRM.
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Fenixp: *hefty* DRM? How much more lightweight DRM would you want, I mean it requires one verification every month or so. Have you ever seen StarForce? :D
SecuROM asks for one verification on install and that's it. It may ask again if you change your hardware significantly but most times it won't.
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OmegaX: SecuROM asks for one verification on install and that's it. It may ask again if you change your hardware significantly but most times it won't.
Yea, and it usually installs drivers on your computer that can go as far as breaking something as with all drivers. Steam just installs an application that's on the same level as the game.