Your president (I reject him completely) has been implementing fascistic policies and lied out his ass about being able to keep health plans if you liked them, about the Benghazi attack, about supporting whistleblowers, and about the Operation Fast and Furious fiasco to name a few reasons why people despise him and refuse to work with him.

I'd go on about that but the point I was making was that a country needs a common language. It's really that simple. A commercial featuring a patriotic American song getting sung in various languages doesn't promote national unity and in some countries, having their patriotic songs sung in any other language than their languages can get the advertisers into a ton of trouble.

Also, my accusations concerning the multicultural zealots have to do with various people in my country and possibly the rest of the world who would have no problem pushing out the culture and customs of a country to make room for the culture and customs of another.

Dude, don't criticize the president in this thread. Our president has nothing to do with this debate and criticizing him will not help you in this thread. You are letting JustSayin suck you into another battle.

Thank you Monkey. I don't think he is dumb or uneducated.

My response was focused on the following:

"If you're going to have a commercial featuring a patriotic song, you do so in the language it was meant to be in. If you want to know why my statements should not come across as racist or bigoted,..."

"...maintain their native languages, they can do so in private... "

"That is what the complaints are about."

"Also, if I worked hard for my place and I don't feel any urgency to give it up, then I'm not giving it up because, last time I checked, someone else is not suppose to have the special privilege of pushing me out just so that he/she can have an easier ride."

My response was to an insistence on a song being sung in one particular language has been construed as bigoted. I did not get a sense he was defending those tweets explicitly, but upon further reflection a defense could be interpreted with the second and last quote. I am not sure where those came from, but it was difficult to find a reason to state them in the context of complaining about a Coke commercial. I can give the benefit of the doubt though.

As for the third quote, I did not get a sense the complaints were solely about language. A lot of the evidence I have seen points to something deeper and angrier, a backlash against anything remotely seen as "unAmerican" in popular culture-- some tweets to this particular commercial were plainly blatant.

There are a number of points that he and I would most certainly agree on, I mentioned a few of them in my previous posts:

That the internment of Americans of Japanese descent was horrific.
Noble Savage Myth
Need for a common language within a country
That attending University is not a guarantee of success or education. (The only thing University acts as is a gateway to credentialing.)
That not attending University is not a roadblock to success or education

I am sure there are others, but those are biggies. Whatever we agree or disagree over, he is not dumb. I think the argument that other countries do it, so the USA should too is not very tenable.

Not asking you specifically, Monkey, but I still want to know what is wrong with singing a song about the nation in a language different from the dominant language of the USA. Is there a desire to legislate an official language for the USA? That, I think, would open up a lot of unintended consequences for everyone. So far, I have see nothing to convince me and still maintain I have yet to see a response to that ad that does not conjure up images of rabid, flag waving, God fearing, racists.

For people to jump on Coke for taking artistic license to emphasize the beauty and melting pot diversity of the USA and it's people is just silly. The only thing I think Coke is guilty of is sappiness. It still gets the point across.

Whether people like it or not, this is a multicultural country. Those who have immigrated here and speak both languages are our best ambassadors to the world.

I feel that when singing a song about the USA in Spanish, you are encouraging people who speak only Spanish, not to learn English. It also sends out a message to everyone else that it is okay to include languages other than English in everything here and that encourages people not to learn English. This country is already an English speaking country even though it is not official. The majority of people who live here speak English. This country is a multicultural country but not a multilingual one. And today, do those who can speak English attack people caught speaking other languages? Maybe in some small towns deep in the south but in most places, people are tolerant of other languages being spoken so why fix something that isn't broke? It's not like there is an unfair treatment of those who speak other languages going on today in this country. If we change this country from an English speaking country to a country that is multilingual then there will be a lot of negative consequences. More people will adopt an US VERSUS THEM mentality. More people will cease seeing their fellow Americans as fellow Americans because a common language unites people. People in this country are already very divided due to all the different races, religions and cultures here but due to having one dominant language, we can at least communicate with each other. We can, at least, reason with each other and fight something that threatens all of us together when we need to. If that gets taken away, there will simply be more hatred, more chaos. The USA will become like Europe during the middle ages.

Yes, it's a good thing that some Americans speak multiple languages. Nobody here is against that. Speaking multiple languages is good for your brain. You can think in more ways compared to those who speak only one language. But Coke's commercial was harmful to this country even though it emphasized diversity because diversity is not always a good thing, not when it comes to language. I don't remember if I brought this up before but in the bible, there was one language and God made everyone only able to speak their own language that nobody else knows to PUNISH people for trying to build a tower that will touch the heavens. He didn't do it to make people happy... He did this to divide people, to create chaos...to make people weak. If this story is true, then God is responsible for most of the murder, rape and enslavement since that day. Why? Because one language unites and when people are united, there is more peace. Human nature makes it so you don't want to have anything to do with people you can't communicate with. And, no, I'm not religious and I believe the bible is just a really twisted Silmarillion type book. But the fictional story from the bible I brought up, makes a good point. :)

That was well put and much more of what I was looking for. I agree, there should be a common language. English has been the default language since nearly the beginning and it is constantly changing with each generation. English in the USA already has different sub groups, albeit minor regional differences.

There has been some backlash against migrant workers, largely in the south, but they are isolated, usually with someone posting a sign in their shop window stating "English Only". It is really silly, get's a little air time with a dust up, the shop keeper realizes it is not really hard to communicate by pointing at menu items, money is money and it is quickly forgotten about. I saw situations back in 2002, where anyone speaking in a language that was vaguely middle eastern was viewed with varying degrees of distrust.

I don't think immigrants would be discouraged from learning the language over a song, but there are situations where multilingual signage while helpful to those here temporarily, can act as a crutch to those with citizenship desires. To be fair, most people who come to the USA on work visas have a really good grasp of the language. If they wish to become citizens, those people are golden; but to those who come over on other visas or through other means, that crutch can be detrimental to successfully functioning in the host country.

Now, if it was mandated for instance that the national anthem be sung multilingually before sporting events or official government functions, then that can be construed as suggesting there is no reason to learn English. With time, that could cause a great deal of division. My opposition would be considerably more reasoned and subdued than a vitriolic tweet, however.

When in Japan and Korea, it was nice to see a lot of signs with English, sometimes comically mistranslated, when at restaurants and train stations. Because of that, seeing Spanish on a sign in the USA tends to not bother me. It would be terribly impractical to have every possible language on a sign, or force shops to include two or more languages.

To legislate the situation in either direction, though I have not seen anyone call for that in this thread, would open up a host of unintended consequences. On one hand, you can have the government forcing shops to display more than on language in signs and menus. On the other, there is the idea of purging vaguely foreign sounding words from the native language. Both of these have happened to varying degrees in other countries, it would be terrible for that to happen here.

What Coke did was purely artistic to emphasize that the USA is made up of many different cultures. I am not troubled by it and do not see it as any more harmful than another language being spoken between characters in a movie. All of those people who expressed their dislike for the commercial in those horrible ways certainly did not need the commercial to create division. My comments on immigrants and their children are aimed squarely at those hateful people. To the rest of us, the commercial should be viewed for what it is, a marketing effort.

If Coke, used a song that isn't an patriotic American song then I'd see no problem and just appreciate the art but America the beautiful is an American patriotic song. Having it sung in many different languages is a harmful message. How harmful? Not so much that people should start raging like madmen. That would be insane. One song alone wont have a huge impact, of course but this commercial could start a dangerous trend. What if other corporations copy Coke and do the same after seeing how successful their new marketing tactic is? I don't know why Coke showing people with many different cultures visually isn't enough to emphasize that the USA is made up of many different cultures. This country already has a problem with some immigrants who simply refuse to learn English. Anything that encourages them to stay on this path is not a good thing. It's not good for all the other people who live in this country, it's not good for them. Nobody benefits from immigrants who refuse to learn the dominant language of where they live. Commercials like that could become mainstream media and that would help immigrants who refuse to learn English justify themselves when it comes to not learning English. I'm sure you know how powerful the media is when it comes to people's minds. Learning another language is extremely hard, even without outside influence, your mind will already be battling against the learning of a new language because you have to humble yourself in order to learn a new language. A part of you will be like, why the fuck should I learn this stupid sounding language spoken by these stupid people? They should be speaking my language! My language is better than their language! A lot of people who move here, don't move here because they are in love with English language or American culture etc. They move here so they don't die from poverty or to one day make enough money to have a decent life. Coca Cola should of known better..

Regrettably, the point you make is flawed on two points of attack:

- "Finlandia" was adopted as the national anthem of the short lived Biafran Republic in Africa, and has also been adopted as a hymn as well - yet I have never, ever heard any of my compatriots to feel less patriotic, or somehow feeling "this does not make sense" over either usage

I think we are mostly rather happy to share, especially if this composition could inspire better feelings, amongst which generous (ie tolerant) patriotism or spiritual longing

- To say "America the beautiful" should not be sung in languages that were in the continent before conquering languages seems rather bigoted to me - lest possibly you feel that denying your original culture is what it takes to gain approval in the US, and assuming others should do the same. Is America the Beautiful so bitchy indeed? To my experience, not!

I must have missed this one. So, now Barack Obama had something to do with that actor from the F&F's death.

I think he killed the wrong star. We would have much rather had Justin Bieber die in a horrible car crash. Or at the very least deport the little bastard.

You mean, Paul Walker.

RIP

You just demonstrated your inability to be of any use in a democratic system.
While I won't start a whole discussion about the definition of 'fascistic', under the hypothesis I know what you are referring to .... do you really believe he's the first to do reprehensible things ? Following your logic you should have rejected all the US president of your lifetime.

The national unity of the US is already extremely high. No danger in falling apart. How much higher do you want it to be? A commercial is just a commercial, although this seems to be a bit ahead of its time. There is no law it has to be in english and most people would actually see the request for all english ads as a tad narrow-minded.

About the culture and customs... isn't it the product of all inhabitants of a country? So if there are indeed US citizens who like to speak other languages than this should be part of the US culture too, I would say. So why not sing a patriotic song in different ways. Shouldn't do much harm.

I always say that the ultimate framework is the constitution of a country. If it says religios freedom and forbids discrimination and guarantees freedom of speech than this it is. That's the minimum but maybe also the maximum of what should be enforced in any case.

The world is always changing but I just hope democracy, tolerance and smartness and freedom win everywhere in the end. Using multiple languages is probably a good way of getting some international perspective, helping to win everywhere. Can't see that it would help to speak only one language. Otherwise I couldn't even write here.

LOL, oh my... You might actually know, I cannot tell, but for those who do not, Operation Fast and Furious refers to the practice of 'gun walking' or allowing illegal sales of fire arms to continue so they can be tracked. The concept started with Operation Wide Receiver under the Bush Admin and continued in one form or another like some of his programs under our current President. You can read about it here.

Nothing to do with the conversation at hand, but I just wanted to clarify.

HAPPY PRESIDENTS DAY! :D

I think Coke wishes it had that kind of influence, at least their shareholders might.

The best evidence I can muster that might refute corporate influence on immigrants wanting to learn the language is the following: There are a lot of foreign films and foreign languages used in English speaking films for decades. I have not seen anything to convince me that things have have had any affect on people not wanting to learn the language. There is also lots of signage and government forms in multiple languages which have been around for years. I strongly suspect singing a patriotic song in another language would have no affect. People who want to succeed here, will learn the language enough to get by to that end. Those that do not, will struggle, no matter how much help they get from multilingual services.

We would need to dig up examples where this occurred in other countries (except it could be affected by other cultural variables), perhaps a wider study in the USA surveying immigrants, or just let it run it's course and see what happens.

As a minor aside, in so far as language changes and not directly related to the discussion, here is an interesting collection of maps that show linguistic differences across the USA: Linguistic Maps

Apparently, I am in enemy territory, they have always been "crawdads" to me! :)

It is for me, I have the day off.
That crawdad one is nuts. I've never called them anything else but crawdads, and when I went to New Orleans, I always heard crawdads. Do they have that one backwards? Everything else they have us Virginians labeled correctly for.

Edit: Oh, and the City thing. If someone asked me what the City was, NYC would be one of the last things on my mind. I would probably point them to our downtown area.