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Crosmando: They would then conclude that the consoles are not value for money.
How much is support worth for you? Is it worth $10? $50? $100? Because that is what you get with a console. The guarantee that it will work.
Personally, I don't care for a games guarantee. If Realms of Arkania doesn't run, I dump it and move on. If Chaos Overlords doesn't run, I spend a few hours trying to make it work. If it doesn't, I curse my luck and throw it.
If , [url=http://www.materialsdata.com/index.html]Jade or EPO Elements doesn't work, I have a huge problem. Thus the software costs between $550 and $3000 but it comes with a 24/7 support, for what is basically two graphing programs and a data monitor.

Also, a pc is not as versatile as you think. My phone can do most of the things my pc does, other than playing games. It can surf the web, view my e-mails, connect to skype, open and edit word and excel and also make calls. And almost everyone has a phone, so why also use a PC?

I've said it before, a console and a pc are not different machines. They are the same machine, with different purposes. A console is for playing games, a PC is for playing games and doing work as well. But if all you want is to play games, the extra functionality of the PC is useless to you, much like the extra functionality of my phone is useless to my grandmother, who only needs to be able to make and receive calls.

So no, calling people who prefer to get a console "lazy", or "ignorant", or whatever else you called them is stupid. They could very well have weighted the benefits a console has for them and found them better than the benefits a PC has for them, much as you say the benefits of a PC for you far outweigh the benefits of a console.
Have you ever used a support line JMich? They will not tell you anything which isn't self-evident or findable without simple good search. Or are you talking about the ability to return the console if it's faulty? Because most PCs/hardware have this too.
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Crosmando: Have you ever used a support line JMich? They will not tell you anything which isn't self-evident or findable without simple good search. Or are you talking about the ability to return the console if it's faulty? Because most PCs/hardware have this too.
So far I've used Microsoft's, Toshiba's, EPO's and quite a few more. Add to it the fact that almost all the times I needed hardware support the machine had to be returned, I'd say I have had my share. Software support was also helpful, especially EPO's who did solve my problem in ~6 hours.
Last time and most interesting one was with Toshiba, for whom the retailer tried to claim that my laptop was no longer under warranty because I had tried to add more memory to it (faulty stick, kept causing hard locks, returned it, retailer claimed stick was fine). Thankfully Toshiba had an additional guarantee that did take care of it.
So yes, by trying to add another memory stick to my computer and encountering errors, it would have costed me ~€75 to repair a heatsink problem.
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Crosmando: No, our society would be a lot better and a lot less dominated by no-good corporations if everybody knew how to assemble a PC.
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Fenixp: Rrrrrright. Yeah. Ok. That's ... Wow, I genuinely don't know how to respond to that. Just... Wow. I'm sorry, you're completely right and everything you say is correct. I am a drooling idiot who doesn't know how the world works.
I found life much easier when I started ignoring Crosmando and his/her misplaced elitist comments

I does reminds me about the story how Yathzee (I think it was) coined the term "Glorious PC Gaming Master Race" in a very sarcastic article the time he stopped playing PC games, and only played console games. This was, among other, due to the community of elitism. Only to come back later and see that some actually did not think that it was sarcastic, but true. :)
Post edited June 11, 2013 by amok
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amok: I found life much easier when I started ignoring Crosmando and his/her misplaced elitist comments

I does reminds me about the story how Yathzee (I think it was) coined the term "Glorious PC Gaming Master Race" in a very sarcastic article the time he stopped playing PC games, and only played console games. This was, among other, due to the community of elitism. Only to come back later and see that some actually did not think that it was sarcastic, but true. :)
I'm not elitist at all, simply pointing about the technical superiority of the PC to consoles.

It does however beg the question of why anyone would be arguing about/defending console gaming on the forum for DRM-free releases for PC gaming, given how many other sites cater to mainstream/console gaming:
https://twitter.com/GOGcom/status/344370937417826304
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Crosmando: It does however beg the question of why anyone would be arguing about/defending console gaming on the forum for DRM-free releases for PC gaming, given how many other sites cater to mainstream/console gaming:
Simple. We don't want to see any bashing.
I don't care what games you like to play, I don't care how you want to play them. You are a gamer, I am a gamer. I don't like seeing any gamer bashed, no matter who (s)he is or what (s)he plays.
The games you play do not make you better than the rest. The platform you play does not make you better than the rest. The time you spend playing does not make you better than the rest. So why do you assume you are better than the rest? (Not aimed specifically at you)
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JMich: Simple. We don't want to see any bashing.
I don't care what games you like to play, I don't care how you want to play them. You are a gamer, I am a gamer. I don't like seeing any gamer bashed, no matter who (s)he is or what (s)he plays.
The games you play do not make you better than the rest. The platform you play does not make you better than the rest. The time you spend playing does not make you better than the rest. So why do you assume you are better than the rest? (Not aimed specifically at you)
Can I give you a +1?

I think I can.
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JMich: Simple. We don't want to see any bashing.
I don't care what games you like to play, I don't care how you want to play them. You are a gamer, I am a gamer. I don't like seeing any gamer bashed, no matter who (s)he is or what (s)he plays.
The games you play do not make you better than the rest. The platform you play does not make you better than the rest. The time you spend playing does not make you better than the rest. So why do you assume you are better than the rest? (Not aimed specifically at you)
You cannot unmake realities I'm afraid, and while your statement is cute it also glosses over some hard realities, probably the biggest being the damage console gaming has done since the Xbox by demanding games all be designed for the lowest common denominator, that being the lower memory and graphical power of the console, plus the more crude gamepad control.

On that basis alone dislike of consoles and console gamers is fine, simply because the business model of multi-platform has done extreme damage and homogenized games to simplistic, scripted action games.

Even without getting into technological side, behaving like consoles exist in their own little reality, and have no effect on PC gaming (or visa versa) is extremely naive.
The console business model for video games does not say "Console gaming is it's own thing", it says that ALL games must be designed for console. So yes I think I'm well within my rights to dislike anyone who supports that.
Post edited June 11, 2013 by Crosmando
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Crosmando: Even without getting into technological side, behaving like consoles exist in their own little reality, and have no effect on PC gaming (or visa versa) is extremely naive.
At which point did I say that? I said I don't care.
Take XCOM:EU. Works as a charm on PC, has quite a lot of visual options depending on your PC hardware, both its control schemes (KB/M and Gamepad) work excellent with it (and KB/M also has a bug/glitch which makes it a bit easier).
Take Paradox. PC exclusives. So what is the lowest common denominator they are aiming for? And why should people be denied playing Paradox games because of their platform of choice?

Lazy developers were always abound, as were shoddy games. The fact that they develop for more than one platform doesn't make me mad, it makes me happy, since more people will get to enjoy those games.

And as for the "simplistic, scripted action games", those were also in existance for too long, we just didn't have something to measure them against. So spare me your "The old games were the best" and "The newer games are bad", and remember Sturgeon's Law and the "One man's trash" idiom.
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JMich: Take XCOM:EU. Works as a charm on PC, has quite a lot of visual options depending on your PC hardware, both its control schemes (KB/M and Gamepad) work excellent with it (and KB/M also has a bug/glitch which makes it a bit easier).
The new XCOM was a huge step down from the older one, it removed inventory management, randomized maps, a huge amount of weapons as well as having the game too easy even on the hardest difficulty. Those horrible sweeping camera movements and zoomed-in camera for attacks were obviously designed for consoles.
Take Paradox. PC exclusives. So what is the lowest common denominator they are aiming for? And why should people be denied playing Paradox games because of their platform of choice?
You cannot match the pinpoint accuracy of mouse control on a gamepad. The grand strategy games that Paradox make would simply not work on console control without gutting the gameplay. You are naively idealistic, so much so it's stupid.
The fact that they develop for more than one platform doesn't make me mad, it makes me happy, since more people will get to enjoy those games.
Absolutely ridiculous, the fact that these games must be designed for multiple platforms instead of focusing on one is the root of the problem. Again, more mindless naivety.
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Crosmando: The new XCOM was a huge step down from the older one, it removed inventory management, randomized maps, a huge amount of weapons as well as having the game too easy even on the hardest difficulty. Those horrible sweeping camera movements and zoomed-in camera for attacks were obviously designed for consoles.
As I said, one man's trash. I did love XCOM:EU, and I didn't find it dumbed down. Hell, the battles were better (for me) in the new one than the classic. Too many hours spent looking for that freaking last alien.

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Crosmando: You cannot match the pinpoint accuracy of mouse control on a gamepad. The grand strategy games that Paradox make would simply not work on console control without gutting the gameplay. You are naively idealistic, so much so it's stupid.
Why wouldn't the grand classics work on a console? Take them as is, and port them. TBS so no need for twitchy fingers, big nice map you can take your time reading and reacting, and a bit slower reaction (or not, depending on muscle memory).
Even better, add a touch screen. Because touching is faster than pointing. And as for precision, I'll tell you to go read what muscle memory is. My nephew is more accurate than me with a gamepad, I'm more accurate than him with a mouse. So it's not just the controller, it's how much practice you had using it.

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Crosmando: Absolutely ridiculous, the fact that these games must be designed for multiple platforms instead of focusing on one is the root of the problem. Again, more mindless naivety.
Why is it a problem? Does that mean that a webpage that must be viewable with 5 different browsers is worse than a page that can be viewed by only 1? The "problem" is how much time is needed to develop, and how much time is actually allocated. If you need 6 months to develop for 3 platforms, but you only allocate 2 months, how is that different from allocating 8 months for a 12 month pc project? So it goes back to lazy developers. If you wish to program for multiple platforms, allocate enough resources for all platforms. Especially since with the previous gen you couldn't use the same code due to different architecture.

So no, it's not naivety, it's knowing where developers cut corners. And if they targeted one platform only, the corners would be cut elsewhere, be it gameplay, story, graphics or bug fixing.
So the problem is not the multiple platforms, but lack of resource allocation. But feel free to blame the platforms, it's not as if software or webpages aren't multiplatform after all.
Again, it's a nice sentiment but it's not the way the industry currently works. I have no problem if a game is designed for one platform, and if successful ported to another, even games like Wizardry series had console ports made for NES/SNES by Japanese companies.

But that is not how it currently works, the game is designed for the control with the fewest amount of buttons - the gamepad, and the PC KB/M version is extrapolated from that.

Also, good luck porting real-time strategies or games like Baldur's Gate to console.
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Crosmando: But that is not how it currently works, the game is designed for the control with the fewest amount of buttons - the gamepad, and the PC KB/M version is extrapolated from that.
You just never ceise to amaze me, first you pretty much claim that all evil in humanity is caused by people not being able to build computers and now games using too few buttons are the cause of current state of the industry! I genuinely wonder what will you come up with next.