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Matruchus: I find it very strange that no continental european media is reporting about the Venetian independence referendum.
Because nobody can take it seriously, even with trying real hard. It's an online vote. Sort of a glorified internet petition with no legal bindings.
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Matruchus: I find it very strange that no continental european media is reporting about the Venetian independence referendum.
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Siannah: Because nobody can take it seriously, even with trying real hard. It's an online vote. Sort of a glorified internet petition with no legal bindings.
Hey, we take it quite seriously, almost as Catalonia and Scotland referendums, and reporting about it with deep and fair sympathy, and we're pretty much continental and european too!
I for one think it's totally ridiculous that independence can even be considered for a place that is totally devoid of any known life and who's atmosphere consist mostly of toxic gas, not to mention that the surface is hot enough to melt lead on!

Oh wait, I'm thinking of the Venus Independence Referendum.

Sorry.
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tinyE: The U.P. has been trying to secede (kind of; they want separate statehood not to abandon the country) for the past 150 years). I don't think we have enough to people to qualify for it though. And no I am not joking. I don't see what the big deal would be; 99% of Michigan either doesn't recognize us or doesn't want us to begin with.
We'll take ya. Makes the most sense anyway, since it means the US flag wouldn't need a redesign.
A short update on the referendum in Venice. There were two million people voting on the referendum and the results are: 89% of people for the secession from Italy and 11% not. It seems there is more to this then anybody thought. A big number of people voting. The organizators now founded an official Independence movement and will demand a legal referendum by the Italian state.

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Matruchus: I find it very strange that no continental european media is reporting about the Venetian independence referendum.
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Siannah: Because nobody can take it seriously, even with trying real hard. It's an online vote. Sort of a glorified internet petition with no legal bindings.
Yeah but truth is that even the voting for parliament is now slowly going to move to online only without any voting papers. At least this what they are going to do here in Slovenia - at least they are planing it. One of the countries doing this already is one of the baltic countries - not sure which one at the moment.
Post edited March 22, 2014 by Matruchus
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Matruchus: Yeah but truth is that even the voting for parliament is now slowly going to move to online only without any voting papers.
Sure. But it's a huge difference if there's an official voting with checks who can or already has voted or a simple online vote, like a newspaper asking for their readers yes/no opinion. And afaik, this was more like the second one.
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Strijkbout: Maybe they want to go back to the glorydays of Italian citystates.
The funny thing is that although very wealthy they were military weak.
Maybe they should read some Machiavelli.
Part of it likely stems from the days of the citystates, yes, since Italy as a country is younger than even the US. The citystates, especially Venice, are culturally distinct from other/southern parts of Italy, though they share some traits. About as much as Germany does with its Germanic neighbours, culturally.

And while Venice was weak militarily on land, they were very strong at sea. Not as much as the Dutch, British or Spanish, but they definitely beat all the others in the Mediterranean, which is all that mattered to them.

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Enebias: Quick notice from an italian law student (I hope something similar has not already been posted): a Venetian independence referendum is illegal, based on the article 5 of the Italian Costitution. To be more precise, the voice "una e indivisibile", translated "one and inseparable" prevent any attempt of secession (which, by the way, could even be marked as one of the most harshly punished crimes if seriously pursued). So, no matter the results, the referendum will have the same impact of a joke.
So tiny and ambiguous a phrase makes secession impossible? So the Italian Constitution basically says people aren't allowed to rule themselves through any entity other than the central Italian government? I knew that Italian prime ministers could come across as dictatorial, but I didn't think it would even be in the constitution. I wonder if the other five founding EU member states ever took that into account when they made democracy one of the requirements for EU membership.
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MorphysLaw: So tiny and ambiguous a phrase makes secession impossible? So the Italian Constitution basically says people aren't allowed to rule themselves through any entity other than the central Italian government? I knew that Italian prime ministers could come across as dictatorial, but I didn't think it would even be in the constitution. I wonder if the other five founding EU member states ever took that into account when they made democracy one of the requirements for EU membership.
Though that tiny phrase makes indeed secession impossible, it does not mean autonomies are suppressed: the article 117 clearly states the matters of exclusive central authority, and they are basically the same as every federal state, like money-making and army management. You should anyway consider the fact that the Constitution was written right after the end of WWII, so the risk of dismemberment was high. Moreover, Italy had the strongest communist party outside the Soviet Union, is an important strategic point in the Mediterranean sea and was under occupation of the Americans, so... draw your conclusions from that.

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Matruchus: A short update on the referendum in Venice. There were two million people voting on the referendum and the results are: 89% of people for the secession from Italy and 11% not. It seems there is more to this then anybody thought. A big number of people voting. The organizators now founded an official Independence movement and will demand a legal referendum by the Italian state.
Man, it was an unofficial online survey WITHOUT any kind of identity check system! I wonder how many people actually voted, and how many votes came from false IDs.

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Matruchus: (...) truth is that even the voting for parliament is now slowly going to move to online only without any voting papers
No. Definitely not. Not in Italy, anyway: many parts of the country still aren't covered by a stable internet connection, and based on how thing are going, a lot of time will pass before it becomes a viable solution!
Post edited March 22, 2014 by Enebias
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tinyE: I for one think it's totally ridiculous that independence can even be considered for a place that is totally devoid of any known life and who's atmosphere consist mostly of toxic gas, not to mention that the surface is hot enough to melt lead on!
That's sad, being that Venus was supposed to be loaded with hot women.
Post edited March 22, 2014 by 1322
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MorphysLaw: So tiny and ambiguous a phrase makes secession impossible? So the Italian Constitution basically says people aren't allowed to rule themselves through any entity other than the central Italian government? I knew that Italian prime ministers could come across as dictatorial, but I didn't think it would even be in the constitution. I wonder if the other five founding EU member states ever took that into account when they made democracy one of the requirements for EU membership.
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Enebias: Though that tiny phrase makes indeed secession impossible, it does not mean autonomies are suppressed: the article 117 clearly states the matters of exclusive central authority, and they are basically the same as every federal state, like money-making and army management. You should anyway consider the fact that the Constitution was written right after the end of WWII, so the risk of dismemberment was high. Moreover, Italy had the strongest communist party outside the Soviet Union, is an important strategic point in the Mediterranean sea and was under occupation of the Americans, so... draw your conclusions from that.

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Matruchus: A short update on the referendum in Venice. There were two million people voting on the referendum and the results are: 89% of people for the secession from Italy and 11% not. It seems there is more to this then anybody thought. A big number of people voting. The organizators now founded an official Independence movement and will demand a legal referendum by the Italian state.
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Enebias: Man, it was an unofficial online survey WITHOUT any kind of identity check system! I wonder how many people actually voted, and how many votes came from false IDs.

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Matruchus: (...) truth is that even the voting for parliament is now slowly going to move to online only without any voting papers
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Enebias: No. Definitely not. Not in Italy, anyway: many parts of the country still aren't covered by a stable internet connection, and based on how thing are going, a lot of time will pass before it becomes a viable solution!
And yes it was an unofficial survey but if over 2 million people took part of it that show that there something seriously wrong with the system if they show the desire to sucede.

Ok, did not know about the bad internet connections in Italy. Here most of the cities now have optical connections only and the optical network is now being expanded to the countryside also so that is not an issue here at least.