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Elmofongo: The thing is I already know all there is to know about Bioshock Infinate, my brother bought the game, we both played it (my brother beat the game first) and we both disliked it and traded it in at Gamestop. Combined with the fact that I have seen this guy's critique of the game afterwards:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdNhwb7iuI4

My only problem with this game is that I was expecting a different kind of game from Bioshock Infinite since I was basing my expectations on this gameplay demo:
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Johnmourby: I'm bored of people's arguments as to why Infinite sucks. I've given my reasons as to why it doesn't I no one wants to read them but they still expect me to take them seriously. I'm not going to watch this guy's video, like I said I'm sick of this crap.

Personally I see no point in hating a game because it wasn't what you excepted/hoped for. That's like hating a racing game for not being an RTS.
Why people want to break my liking for infinite because they didn't and wont even listen to my reasons for liking it I can't imagine.

And will people please stop going on about System Shock 2. I've already said that it didn't impress me. It's Bioshock exempt chunkier and fussier. To me at least.
Well I swear to you I am just saying my reasons for not liking Bioshock Infinite. I in no way am trying to convince you it sucks and stop liking it if I was I would bombarding you with private messages telling you to stop liking Bioshock Infinite.

And the only System Shock 2 related thing I said is that I was hoping this game to feature exploration like SS2.

And again forgive me for saying this but I just think that Bioshock Infinite is just trying to be too experiamental where some people will like it and some will not.
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Johnmourby: Apparently none. You did say "you lost me at...." Implying that nothing I said had any mean or worth to you from there. And seems sad to me this difference of opinion meant that, when I was trying to say that the guy with the unpopular opinions can still have good reasons for them.
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F4LL0UT: Yes, I did imply that. However, it's simply odd that in the same paragraph where you say "I'm tired of people saying that it's bad like there's no way that an intelligent person could disagree with them whilst giving no facts to back up their opinion" you just say "that shotgun sucks", thus making it seem that you yourself have the same approach that you accuse others of, just in case of a different game - and I as a reader, and especially as a Duke fan, of course instantly lose a lot of interest in seeing the arguments you are going to use to defend BioShock Infinite. You started with creating that big gap between us, so what are the odds that your pro-Bioshock arguments will resonate with me? At the very least arguments concerning the combat and weapons in BioShock are most likely going to be meaningless to me since you instantly made it clear that you have a different opinion on that kind of stuff than I have.

So don't get me wrong, of course that does not mean that I think that you're stupid, beneath me, have bad taste or anything. But you simply *did* lose me at the point when you distanced yourself from people like me, who love Duke Nukem 3D (and the look and feel of its shotgun) and when you made it seem that you weren't gonna show the understanding and sophisticated critique you're requesting from others if it were someone else praising Duke 3D.
I can go into depth about my apathy about Duke If you want. I assumed it would be a waste of time,.
What I was trying to show is that, for me atleast no game is scared. And that I understand how it feels to want to shoot something popular down. I wasn't trying to say you're stupid if you like duke 3D. So I'm sorry If there was any hypocrisy there.

I do get why people like Duke (At least I think I do) But that some games are scared (Duke, System Shock 2 Morrowind) And some are official targets for attack (Half life, Bioshock, Oblivion) gets to me.

But yeah I'm sorry and if you'd like me to try to approach more sophisticated I'd be happy to.
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Elmofongo: Well I swear to you I am just saying my reasons for not liking Bioshock Infinite. I in no way am trying to convince you it sucks and stop liking it if I was I would bombarding you with private messages telling you to stop liking Bioshock Infinite.

And the only System Shock 2 related thing I said is that I was hoping this game to feature exploration like SS2.

And again forgive me for saying this but I just think that Bioshock Infinite is just trying to be too experimental where some people will like it and some will not.
Sorry if I'm getting worked up. I didn't like being linked to another video of someone trashing Infinite as if I hadn't seen/read enough of it lately.

That and I just want some evidence from someone, anyone, that they'd read and considered my stance before compering infinite to unfavourably to the Last of Us/System Shock again.
I didn't start this thread to argue about it's merits or lack thereof, but to prove that it can be legitimacy enjoyed by other people even if the reader didn't.

Thank you.
Ooh now here's a very relevant article to Bioshock, Ken Levine and linearity:
http://www.polygon.com/2014/3/21/5534258/ken-levine-next-project
Although I'm sure that the Bioshock games are excellent, benchmark games of the type that they are and look forward to getting started on them.. some day
Also I'm not sure 'Worry about a bunch of random mooks feelings simulator' is necessarily a step forward - talented people experimenting is ANYWAYS a good thing though, even if we only learn from their mistakes...
Remember this is all my opinion, i'm not saying this is fact, just my stance:


people like calling games shit because it's "popular" to say so, not because they're actually bad. Maybe not as good as expected but not bad. It gets repeated, picked up by suggestible people and voila! bad reputation.

two big examples:

Diablo 3
Duke Nukem Forever

and then there's the games which constantly get good reviews by easily bribed magazines and websites and where this also gets repeated and repeated, picked up by suggestible people and there you go.

Worst offenders:

Call Of Duty (FPS for 12 year olds in all but official rating, copy-paste level design, boring cliched story, started out kind of entertaining, but certainly not AAA level, they're not the worst games ever but their "official" target group is not the intended one and it shows)
Battlefield (started out very good, then went too bombastic and too obviously just thrown together for a big buck)
Mass Effect (not bad per se, but kind of faceless and bland IMO)