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wvpr: The movie has flaws. Everything in space takes place too close together, even for Star Trek, yet in other scenes they try for space realism. It feels off. The flares get old. There isn't a story so much as a premise. But you're right. The movie woke up past-dead characters and paid more respect to the classic series than the B&B team managed in all their years. Everyone in the movie had fun with the material and it comes across. There was actual humor worth laughing at, with no campfire songs in sight. Even the villain had unusual poignance for a Trek film. Compare it with something as leaden as Insurrection.
Flaws? Oh, yes. I completely agree with your whole reply.

This movie had plot holes (or at least, compelling WTF moments) you could drive a shuttlecraft through, but no one should care because this movie rocked from beginning to end.

Sure... one might ask why is there a big dumb red lobster monster on the Ice Planet Hoth... err... I mean the ice planet that clearly isn't Hoth?

One might ask, did we really need the comic relief slapstick sequence where Bones injects Kirk with a bug that creates giant clown hands?

One might ask, why do the Romulans have mining ships that can destroy a whole fleet of Federation ships, not to mention, planets?

And amazingly, the producers actually found a way to insert both a Nokia product placement AND a Beastie Boys song into the same scene.

But who cares? Because at the end of the day... Star Trek is a kinetic, balls to the wall, reboot of a series that had become stale and dull and entirely too cluttered with low budget Next Gen bullshit. If I had to endure one more movie about pompous academicians in spandex postulating on the best diplomatic channel to contact the Bloinkmuster's Consulate on Ceti Epsilon Prime... well, let's say I'd have been very unhappy.

Thank God that Abrams decided that moving at a pace faster than the average biology lecture, and using special effects that employed the latest technology, and having characters with personality and sex appeal... wasn't a bad thing. Suddenly, Star Trek has swagger like it did back in the day before star ships were taken off dilithium crystals and fueled instead with estrogen. (that's right... I'm taking a shot at Counselor Troi)

The Klingon: Picard! I'm gonna slice your belly open and eat your heart while it is still beating!
Counselor Troi: Captain, I sense hostility.
The Klingon: On second thought, I'm gonna gut the bitch first.*

*Taken from a real rejected Ron Moore script

Star Trek: The Original Series is looked upon today as quaint and naive and serious and straight... but in the late 60s and early 70s, ST:TOS was bold and adventurous and daring and infused with sexuality and comedy and sharp pointed political criticisms and the new Star Trek takes back that machismo and sexiness and raw energy and sheds the stoic crust that grew over and weighted down the franchise. Suddenly the universe of the United Federation of Planets is freewheeling and swinging again.

All in all... I wanna see this Captain Kirk Universe of Star Trek a hundred times over and I don't care if the antiseptic world or Professor Picard and the Faculty of Enterprise D ever returns.

The new Kirk and Spock echo their predecessors, yet add fresh takes for a new, modern Star Trek. Spock gets re-envisioned to account for his inner emotional struggle. Being half Vulcan and half Human, this new Trek sees Spock walk a line between the cold and pragmatic ways of pure Vulcan logic, and the unpredictable passion of human emotion (much like I do) :-) Kirk's past was changed by the events that set this film's plot in motion, thus Chris Pine's Kirk will not enter Star Fleet in the way Shatner's Kirk did. New Kirk is a brilliant, but undisciplined ruffian, wandering, seeking a place in the universe, and he had to be goaded into enlisting by none other than Captain Christopher Pike (wonderfully brought back to life by Bruce Greenwood)

Finally... Leonard Nimoy returns as Spock (old Spock from the future, because Star Trek isn't afraid of time travel stories, never has been, never will) and there is a moment when he makes the Vulcan hand sign and says to young Kirk the signature line, "Live Long, And Prosper..." even going so far as to add an, "...old friend" to the end and the audience I was with had a spontaneous and simultaneous moment of honest and heartfelt emotion culminating in applause for what will certainly be the last time the venerable actor ever portrays Mr. Spock on the screen... a perfect end to a brilliant career... a perfect passing of the torch... and I have to admit that I choked up at that moment.

To be fair... I cried in 2010: Odyssey Two when the US and Russia broke off diplomatic relations and the Americans had to leave the Leonov to board the Discovery... So I'm not just a dork, but a pussy too :-(
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Taleroth: This is a common distinction between 'intellectual' sci-fi and space opera that cares more about the drama than science. Star Trek clearly didn't care about the science. Which it seemed to in points early on, but diverged more as things progressed.
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nondeplumage: The difference between ignoring science and getting it wrong versus following science and getting it wrong is intent.
No, it's not. Flagrant disregard is not the same as simply being wrong. This plays pretty much straight into what it means to be intellectual. Being wrong is something you can at least follow, consider, and think about.

Disregard is simply an act of shutting off your brain and accepting it.
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Taleroth: This is a common distinction between 'intellectual' sci-fi and space opera that cares more about the drama than science. Star Trek clearly didn't care about the science. Which it seemed to in points early on, but diverged more as things progressed.
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Darling_Jimmy: You might be surprised if you look up the definition of opera. Or does space nullify opera?
I didn't say it was the defining distinction. But that it's a common one.

If you're referring to the musical type of opera, that's not what a space opera refers to. No, that's not space nullifying opera, that's just the definition of space opera. It's typically big heroes doing big things against big villains in spaaaace.

I think the etymology is probably more linked to Soap Opera than the other kind.
Post edited June 16, 2011 by Taleroth
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Taleroth: I didn't say it was the defining distinction. But that it's a common one.

If you're referring to the musical type of opera, that's not what a space opera refers to. No, that's not space nullifying opera, that's just the definition of space opera. It's typically big heroes doing big things against big villains in spaaaace.

I think the etymology is probably more linked to Soap Opera, than the other kind.
I was referencing the blog post you linked to:
This silly opinion implies that the word "fiction" nullifies the word "science."
But space soap would be a pretty fitting classification for Star Trek, I can't argue that. Should have more sex, murder, sex murder and rich bitches though.
dude, WTF?!?!

RE5 was not that good of a game, why are we getting a whole slew of it's clones all of a sudden? does it really take two years to lift a game design wholesale then slap new textures on it?
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HoneyBakedHam: But actually, it is easy to say what made Star Trek great. It was J.J. Abrams for rescuing the aging, bloated, and dying franchise. The Star Trek reboot captured the swagger of ST:TOS. He managed something that had never been done before... he made a good movie based on Star Trek.

Next Gen was Professor Picard and the Faculty of the Enterprise, which was a long tedious nightmare where every week the universe, allegedly in peril, would be saved by a lot of long winded oration, and occasionally by a blind guy who who would adjust the gamma frequency output of the main dish array to compensate for fluctuation in the temporal profile of theta waves produced by "the anomaly".
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StingingVelvet: I like how you talk like Star Trek was always this big failure until Abrams came along and saved it. Nothing is further from the truth. While the original series wasn't a hit at the time the movies based off it were big hits in their day. More important The Next Generation was a fucking phenomenon in the late 80's and early 90's, everyone I knew watched that damn show. Maybe your ADHD causes you to find intellectual sci-fi "boring" but that doesn't mean everyone else does. Also First Contact was a hit movie without question.
For me, it was a failure. And I was there for all of it. I went to each movie on opening weekend. I watched each new tv series. I wanted to love it. And honestly, I do like a lot of it far more than I pretend to... but I see it for what it is... which is, kinda lackluster.

Now, I am sure you know that when I wrote that... I never claimed to be speaking for anyone other than me. As for having ADHD, well... I'll watch My Dinner With Andre anytime I can and I watch a lot of C-Span, so I don't think that really applies. Plus, I watch a lot of Next Gen, so I can clearly wade through anything.

Later Star Trek gets so bogged down in its own sense of smug intellectual superiority, it forgets to be entertaining... which is a cardinal sin for an entertainment product. Sure, it was often popular, and several of the movies were hits... but Jimmy Buffet sells a lot of records and Twilight has a lot of fans, so I think it is safe to ignore popularity as an indicator of quality... not to mention that the notion of quality is all subjective anyway.