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I am a bit confused about the ending backlash too. But I think it basically boils down to the fact that CDPR sacrificed some gameplay and exploration for the sake of story pacing, since most complaints seem to stem from the fact that chapter 3 is rather short, and there's not much to explore. The story had been slowly building, and this was the climax, the feeling of urgency was rather important to preserve, from a storytelling perspective. I sided with Iorveth, but I presume it's similar if you side with Roche, (or maybe not and that's where the griping is coming from) but your whole reason for going to Loc Muinne has a rather urgent reason, it doesn't make sense for Geralt to get there and go "well, this will have to wait as I explore and take up some pet control quests" (though he does, anyway, but only one) in previous chapters, you were waiting for something to happen, and investigating, in 3 you knew what needed to be done and all that remained was to get it done.
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kobriel: Example: I hate the new meditation thing and making potions. Because I can't have a good view of the inventory and plan what potions or oils to make, what items to save for later or for crafting (since some of the items are suitable both for alchemy and crafting). I'm no fan of "older is better" concept, but I believe this is the case here.

Another example: I feel like I lost something with the new combat system. Here, again, I think that the old "styles" system was way better, even if the new mechanics make the game and the action more fluid and nice.

I guess the developers aligned themselfs with the trend and tried to make things more eye-appealing, overlooking the functionality, the purpose and actually dimishing the fun instead of increasing it. It's the same thing I disliked about the Civilization IV, when it came out after Civ III. For instance, the new nice graphics made the things harder to spot, and I'm still playing Civ III more than IV (and I never touched V), even if I have to admit that the new concepts are better, in IV. Another comparison would be Age of Empires 3. In this case, I liked a lot the new graphics and some other things, but the micromanagement thingy was all but gone. And since so many players loved the series, I can't understand how exactly did the devs decide that this crucial element of it needs to be simpified. Or the Mechwarrior series, where the mech's management was also simplified, somewhat, in MW IV.

On the contrary, there are series of games, like STALKER, or Mass Effect, where the new ideas fit perfectly, and the new games in series seem overall better than the old ones. At least, for me. And there are some, like Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas, where the new game just gives more of the first, more adventure, without changing anything, actually. Which I find better than changing some very important elements for worse.

On the other hand, I'd like to make a note regarding BioWare, because I find the comments a bit unfair - when people compare the two great companies - CD Red and BioWare, looking down to the "BioWare guys", and I think it's the same error the "other guys" do when they look down to the CD Red fans. I also found boring the Dragon Age series, but they produced so many other games, they innovated so much (and I'm personally in love with their Mass Effect series, from which CD Red borrowed some elements - the dialogue system, the moral choices with profound implications at the end of the game and even through the next game in the series, the in-game sex thing that helps relating to the characters and the story etc.). I think they are both great companies and they both deliver wonders to the benefit of us, the players. Only some people love some specific games and love is blind :)) Wouldn't people fight for their lover, even if it's unfair, or employing unfair tactics? :)
Interesting post, with some valid points burrowed beneath strange comparisons:P

The alchemy part hasn't been fleshed out well, since at the most difficult battles(some happen without previous knowledge) you can't use them midbattle and they require you to load a previous savegame which breaks the immersion a little bit)


I started playing Civ at 3, and found Civ IV perfect and not worse then III. Though i must say i bought V on the release day and was severly disappointed. That one would be a valid argument and was way to simplified(although the combat was a improvement)

Regarding bioware.... I still love some parts of the company but i can't get over the fact that the main storylines in their new games(Dragon age and Mass effect) are plain bad. They're overly simplified compared to their older games. Although i loved Dragon age 1(let's not talk about 2 still disappointed with that one) it's actually worse then Neverwinter nights 2 regarding it's narrative. Mass effect 2 started off brilliantly in my opinion.... but behind the incredible presentation i found a shallow main character(never something intelligent ) and a weak narrative and plotline.

The Witcher 2 is a vast improvement regarding quests (less fetch quests and no killing x but something more of a purpose like destroying nests when it comes to board quests)

It looks amazing and has a brilliant atmopshere(been a while since i felt that way)

Combat system, while more direct and more involved is at times frustating because of the block mechanic/auto targetting. The game is actually a good challenge and only became frustating when you were facing Letho for the first time(strangely he is hardly any stronger at the very part of the game!)

Choices have direct concequences, something i didn't see in mass effect(even mass effect 1>>2 only showed very minor cameo apperances and the only major thing i found was on the Krogan planet)

And while i found the ending good, i felt like it could;ve been great and better(gave me some time to explore outside the city, they mentioned that the council would start months later, why not give us some chapter/area in between:P)
Post edited May 24, 2011 by Rajin
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Rajin: Although i loved Dragon age 1(let's not talk about 2 still disappointed with that one) it's actually worse then Neverwinter nights 2 regarding it's narrative.
That's probably easily explained by the fact Obsidian did NWN2, not BioWare. ;)
After you see this game running you wonder whats behind a bad review.

so far i have seen a total prick youtubing bad vid reviews for clicks n pay.,and a few iffy site reviews looking to also get views and clicks from people they angered,to make a few pennies.

every reviews done by competent people just looking to inform have been pro witcher 2.

i even read a review that was almost sexual in its love for the game..lol
Who cares. Do you live your entire life liking and/or disliking everything based on what someone tells you to do?

Actually, what am I saying. Most people do just that.
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revial: Who cares. Do you live your entire life liking and/or disliking everything based on what someone tells you to do?

Actually, what am I saying. Most people do just that.
lol - yeah, that's what the majority do. Easily seen when you look at popular music and some of the most popular movies and tv shows.
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yewtee: So far I've enjoyed this game tremendously. I was browsing around the net and read some reviews that gave this game low ratings.

So far the biggest complaints are just mainly about doors animations that kept closing behind a character that has gone through it, and about the difficulty of early levels.

Those complaints are valid to a point but geeze, I mean give me a break. Those small issues never bothered me and I felt the opinions and ratings are not justified.

Well those are just their opinions anyway so too bad for them. I'll just continue enjoying this game. Cheers.
Not sure what you mean. Are you talking mainstream review websites/critics or "average users"? There is one 60% score on metacritic but the rest range from 87%-100% with a 92% average. So essentially there is only one bad review.
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Raye: I am a bit confused about the ending backlash too.
First let me say, "Different strokes for different folks".

Up to the end of act 2, I thought TW2 was a 10/10 game, the most enjoyable I'd ever played. Act 3, however, I thought was a disaster. Why? I won't answer that question because I believe that subjective, emotional reactions can't accurately be explained through rationization (at least by me). However, my emotional reaction is summed up nicely by Richaet Cobbett at PC Gamer.....

"Chapter 3 turned out to be the end, as if The Witcher 2 suddenly looked at its watch, and went ‘Whoa, is that the time?’. Things are resolved… mostly… but in the most cack-handed ways. Plot threads are unceremoniously dumped, characters sidelined and forgotten, a couple of final quests rushed through as quickly as possible, and then the word ‘Epilogue’ appears like a slap in the face. Huge, world-changing events happen, but get no time to breathe or explore the consequences that were the whole damn point of making those big choices in the first place. It’s as if there’s a whole concluding chapter simply missing. Ending the story like this isn’t just disappointing. It’s a betrayal."
"Chapter 3 turned out to be the end, as if The Witcher 2 suddenly looked at its watch, and went ‘Whoa, is that the time?’. Things are resolved… mostly… but in the most cack-handed ways. Plot threads are unceremoniously dumped, characters sidelined and forgotten, a couple of final quests rushed through as quickly as possible, and then the word ‘Epilogue’ appears like a slap in the face. Huge, world-changing events happen, but get no time to breathe or explore the consequences that were the whole damn point of making those big choices in the first place. It’s as if there’s a whole concluding chapter simply missing. Ending the story like this isn’t just disappointing. It’s a betrayal."
That's a very personal opinion and it's not a legitimate complaint. This to me just shows this reviewer wasn't entirely paying attention to what he has been playing.

Rushed? Hello?!?! Did you and the reviewer forget that Geralt is in a rush? His lover whom you promised to be with and leave with her once the King was dead is in danger. He knows she is in the gasp of the enemy who will discard her as soon as they get what they want from her. He knows Letho is inolved with the gathering and that it's the perfect situation for all the eggs in the basket to be killed off in one fell swoop. The complaint over this is just asinine. Of course it's rushed. Because they are in a rush!

All that paragraph tells me is that the reviewer wasn't paying attention to who Geralt is. Which is shameful because you are supposed to be role playing Geralt. Geralt does not care exploring the consequence of the aftermath. He is not interested in the dealings with the Kings and nobles. In the prologue he clearly spells out his disdain for their petty ways and only will inolve himself when his name is at stake and his friend's lives are in danger. The prologue clearly says what Geralt's intentions are after he resolves his obligation to the now dead king. He wants to leave with Triss. He is not interested in exploring the aftermath like the reviewer is. The reviewer obviously forgot or is ignorant to what role playing is.

The point of the game was to do two things. Find the assassin who framed him and clear his name and find Triss. And part of clearing his name is to clear Triss' name. The extra is to find out more about the Wild Hunt and recover his memory of himself and Yenneth.

The ending of the game concludes EVERYTHING that Geralt set out to do. None of his intentions and goals were dropped or forgotten. This issues that the reviewer had was not of Geralt's prerogative. And remember this is a role playing game, you are Geralt His interests and goals are your interests and goals. That's the essence of role playing, you are playing a specific role.
Spoiller!!!
- He finds out about the wild hunt.
- Finds Letho, clears his name
- Saves Triss
- And he finds out about Yenneth.

Everything of concern for Geralt is resolved in Chapter 3, nothing of importance dropped.
Post edited May 24, 2011 by hulahula32
yeah, prettu much what hulahula32 said. As I said above, I see this as a conscious choice with story pacing. Having it drawn out longer would have made no sense, and destroyed the sense of urgency. And the only thing that I can think of being 'dropped' in my playthrough is that I would have liked to encounter Roche again, maybe have Iorveth and Roche go at eachother again. Everything else was resolved to my satisfaction.
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hulahula32: The complaint over this is just asinine. Of course it's rushed. Because they are in a rush!
I think this is an important point and can't be emphasized enough. How many games have you played where you're told how urgently you must get somewhere or do something and yet you can spend as much time as you want doing side quests? (I'm looking at you, BioWare).

This, while not on a timer, at least gives you that sense of urgency and plays it out well story-wise.
Because everyone writes what is oh-so-good about The Witcher 2, I decided to write few words about what I didn't like. I, of course, agree that it has wonderful graphics, stunning cutscenes, adult world and approach, gripping story and belivable characters.

However, being a huge fan of series, I - unfortunately - would give The Witcher 2, "only" 8.5 of 10. The Witcher 2 makes same mistakes as The Witcher 1:
- bad optimisation (I have good rig so I play mostly on High, yet there are some places, when I don't get >15 FPS even on lowest! especially when it's raining or there are many NPCs fighting. It's killing immersion and atmosphere)
- bad character control (no jumping, invisible walls and few other related issues)
- combat is not as good as it should be (its frustrating rather than hard; flowless, not fluid, Geralt does not react to clicked keys, or reacts horribly slow, too small amount of vigor and it's regen resulting in roll-fest - I bought almost all vigor-related abilities and only then fighting became satisfying; combat is too hard at the beginning (playing on normal) of the game and too easy at the end (playing on hard); unbalanced - I feel I could win every battle with 10+ bombs thrown and while gathering ingredients is easy and you always have full sacks of them, you are able to have 10-20 bombs all the time in inventory. I feel that if I use this tactic it would totally kill any fun from combat), still it is a big step forward compared to TW1 combat,
- few types of creatures (monsters), especially for a game about monster-hunter,
- bad design decision (too long "unsaveable" sequences, boss-fights that I couldn't prepare to and other)
- bugs.

These are all problems of The Witcher 1 which are still present in The Witcher 2. The Witcher 1 was CDPR debut game. I could easily blame inexperience and Aurora Engine for The Witcher 1 flaws. This time such mistakes are unforgivable.

Do I feel disappointed? A bit. The game was hyped as hell and since CDPR did their own engine, I was expecting the perfect game or at least a game without mistakes made by it's predecessor. The question is - why those mistakes happened again? Some of them are purely design decisions. Some of them are the result of bad QA and testing. Some of them surely are there because of lack of time.

Why 8.5 of 10? -1 for combat, -0.5 for optimisation, -0.5 for bugs, extra +0.5 for "something, that keeps me playing TW2 all the time". However I am worried, that "this something" is just being Sapkowski's ultrafan.

I also don't like how unprofessionally CDPR performed 16th May with CE launch. It's their second failure connected with CE. Another field where CDP did not draw conclusions from their mistakes.

The summary is rather sad - CDP(R) is a company, which seems not to learn from errors they did. Now I am left thinking - "Will The Witcher 3 make same mistakes as The Witcher 1 and The Witcher 2?"
Post edited May 24, 2011 by SCofalik
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cbarbagallo: Links?
The OP may be referring to these reviews - two 60% and a 70%:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/the-witcher-2-assassins-of-kings/critic-reviews?dist=neutral

Based on the universal praise of the other professional critics (not referring to the users) I would say those 3 "mediocre reviews" are flawed. Unfortunately they dragged the average down a few points. Bugs and all TW2 is a pure work of art and easily a 90-95% no matter how you slice it.

I like to use Gamespot as a measuring device to compare reviews as they always seem to grade tough. They don't give out 90s and up too easily and they gave TW2 a 90 and DA2 an 80 - fair in my opinion.
Post edited May 27, 2011 by jpnole