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wpegg: I'm curious as to you suggested solution to that. Are you implying that the AI should be aware that some things are going to move? I accept that if you are funneling 20 troops through a tunnel, they should all go though, rather than walk around - and they do. Beyond that would require the AI to either predict what would happen, or respond to events after the path has been decided, which can lead to easy AI wacking where you just keep opening an closing a door to split the troops.
However I was going for the more macro AI, as an opponent it's hard, and plays by the rules. As an interface I've not personally been frustrated by it because I never move that many units.

In WC/SC when You tell 20 troops to go through a tunnel, they will go around, as soon as the first units block the tunnel [happens in WC1, WC2, SC and WC3 for sure, i checked that out a few days ago]. Some will even stop half way. A simple solution is to tell the unit to wait, when the unit blocking the path is on a move to a set destination. So, if Unit 2 is following Unit 1, and Unit 1 block the path, Unit 2 should stick to Unit 1, and if too close, wait for Unit 1 to move a bit, all by checking if Unit 1 is moving in the same direction.
The reason i replied to Your post in the first place, is because it's a bug/feature that's in Blizz's RTS games since WarCraft 1 [yeah, i've been around that long].
Right now, i'm finishing up the Orc Campaign in Tides Of Darkness [playing on the up to date Battlenet edition of WC2] and the problem with path finding is the all the way. And in WC2 You could only select up to 9 units at a time. And just today, i was defending my base from a Paladin/Knight/Ba;lista mix with 3 Orges and 6 Berzerkers in one group. The Berzerkers got raped, and the Orges decided on NOT attacking the enemy after losing their way. So i decided to check that out again, and found out that the Orge units had to cross a 'stream' of Peons working the mines, and then travel through a small tunnel between a forest and a Turret, and they just couldn't handle it.
But it gets better, in one of the first Orc missions, where You must free an Axethrower and then lead him to his encampment. After uncovering the path to the camp, i created some additional units just to be sure the Axethrower will be safe. To my surprise, the units from my main base couldn't find a way around a big forest, and ended up stuck halfway, looking at trees. Yes, it's that bad.;]
The problem becomes even funnier after playing around in SC2, where similar bugs/features still exist.
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KavazovAngel: In SC maybe, but in SC2 I've never seen any path-finding issues.

Then call me an expert blocker. ;P Try maneuvering units between sieged tanks.:P
The sh..ty Reapers loved to block on a ledge, refusing to jump down from it, dancing around, and once every while, one reaper would jump down. Also, tanks in a condensed group had some problems. SC2 had most of it done better, but still, the problem exists. ;)
Post edited August 23, 2010 by Arteveld
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POLE7645: Half-Life 2 had excellent AI (although the level design limited greatly their effectiveness).
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KavazovAngel: HL2 is scripted. Almost everything is scripted, so the AI although good, is not that good. :)

Some users experimented with some maps of their own and found out that both enemy and ally AI is quite impressive (without scripting). Here's an example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYlMC8z0G8
And even in single player, the ally AI does some impressive things (like a resistance fighter taking care of the flying cameras while we're taking down a strider) which are done without scripting.
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POLE7645: Some users experimented with some maps of their own and found out that both enemy and ally AI is quite impressive (without scripting). Here's an example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYlMC8z0G8
And even in single player, the ally AI does some impressive things (like a resistance fighter taking care of the flying cameras while we're taking down a strider) which are done without scripting.

Nice video. :) Maybe I am wrong, but to me it always felt like what happened was always supposed to happen.
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Arteveld: SC2 had most of it done better, but still, the problem exists. ;)

While certainly not perfect, StarCraft 2 has wonderful pathfinding when compared to other RTSes.
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Arteveld: SC2 had most of it done better, but still, the problem exists. ;)
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Vestin: While certainly not perfect, StarCraft 2 has wonderful pathfinding when compared to other RTSes.

Well that's good to hear. I remember getting frustrated with the path finding in the original StarCraft, so that's good that it's improved (after 12 years, it better be improved!).
Remember the AI on the original Command and Conquer: Red Alert? That game frustrated me for most of my childhood with that AI system. Anyone who has played knows what I mean, you have BARELY 2-5 minutes before you have a huge army attacking you, basically forcing a wall of tesla towers just to stay alive xD
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POLE7645: Some users experimented with some maps of their own and found out that both enemy and ally AI is quite impressive (without scripting). Here's an example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWYlMC8z0G8
And even in single player, the ally AI does some impressive things (like a resistance fighter taking care of the flying cameras while we're taking down a strider) which are done without scripting.

Then you have the otherside of HL2 AI
[url=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WqAmuSXEQ&feature=related[/url]
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Ralackk: Then you have the otherside of HL2 AI
[url=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WqAmuSXEQ&feature=related[/url]

To be fair, that's more of an oversight than bad AI.
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Ralackk: Then you have the otherside of HL2 AI
[url=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0WqAmuSXEQ&feature=related[/url]
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PoSSeSSeDCoW: To be fair, that's more of an oversight than bad AI.

exactly not an AI fault but programming fault. The combine just cannot see you.
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KavazovAngel: F.E.A.R. has a great AI.

FEAR uses a method of making the AI seem super intelligent even though it isn't and is VERY effective. I don't think a shooter has topped it yet.

I've played the game, i know what it's capable of, no need tor hype movies.;)
[the player is sh.t ;P]
Oh, and :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA2epda-RkM ;)
Post edited August 24, 2010 by Arteveld
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wpegg: Starcraft and Warcraft series would get my vote. I think that it's not so much the cunning of the AI though, so much as the fact it can click everywhere at one. Whereas us mortals have to frantically navigate the map to keep everything in check.

The AI in every blizzard game cheats, even in SC2. The insane AI in SC2 even has extra income pr. harvest and can perform actions with no delay. The AIs in earlier games, like Starcraft:BW have cheated by "knowing" the map, thereby knowing what you've built and where, without the need to scout it out first.
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KavazovAngel: F.E.A.R. has a great AI.
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StingingVelvet: FEAR uses a method of making the AI seem super intelligent even though it isn't and is VERY effective. I don't think a shooter has topped it yet.

like everything else with this game i was also disappointed with it.
my whole strategy was based on hiding behind corner and shooting everyone in slow mow.
AI never flanked me and the only real threat was the invisible fast guys. who weren't smarter than fast zombies from HL2 (well almost. they tent to jump to sides from time to time)
so yeah.