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General discussion (archive)Get your cracks here!(126 posts)(126 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted November 23, 2011
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Pemptus: No, no they're not. Think for a second, try to put yourself in the position of an individual who wants The Witcher 2 and think what options you have. Now step into the shoes of a person just itching to play that old title that reminds him of a time when he still had hair, and its developer went under decades ago. What options does HE have?

edit: and ninjaed yet again!
You probably said it better than I did.
Posted November 23, 2011
low rated
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Pemptus: No, no they're not. Think for a second, try to put yourself in the position of an individual who wants The Witcher 2 and think what options you have. Now step into the shoes of a person just itching to play that old title that reminds him of a time when he still had hair, and its developer went under decades ago. What options does HE have?
A: he has an option to:

1. Buy a new copy from a digital distributor or online retailer, or buy a used copy, or borrow it from a friend.
2. Pirate the game.

B: he has an option to:

1. Buy a new copy from an online retailer, or buy a used copy, or borrow it from a friend.
2. Pirate the game.

Seems equal to me. The fact that a game is old and the 'new' copies being sold on ebay cost a whole house doesn't make pirating an okay thing to do.

A developer / publisher going bust doesn't strip them off their IPs. A company can always be reactivated and transfer the IPs to another entity. There is a reason copyright lasts 70 or more years.
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Stuff: ...
Just wrote what I thought on the subject. Since they use cracks in their games (forget the whole publisher gave them permission crap, they gave them permission for the original exe, the modification done by the hacking group belongs to the hacking group, but whatever...)

Oh, and this is just a discussion, if anybody really got offended or something, he has something worse to worry about than me writing this feedback.

Aaaand, no I wasn't offended or whatever.
Post edited November 23, 2011 by kavazovangel
Posted November 23, 2011
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kavazovangel: Like, XP is not being sold anymore... That doesn't make it okay for people to download it from 'abandon'ware sites.
Yeah, because an OS is the same thing as a videogame. XP is a viable and working alternative to modern Windows, which is what makes download XP piracy. If Windows was no longer an OS being sold in any form you're damn right it would be abandonware.

You're smarter than that analogy.

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kavazovangel: Seems equal to me. The fact that a game is old and the 'new' copies being sold on ebay cost a whole house doesn't make pirating an okay thing to do.
The fact that there is no way to give the original publisher, developers or a new publisher ANY money for the game is what makes it different. The radically inflated prices due to collectors markets is what makes it different. You know this.

This is not about whether abadonware is morally right or not, this is about your statement (and the statement of others) that it is the same as pirating a modern title. It is not. Abandonware sites are trying to preserve the art and history of videogames whose publishers long ago stopped caring about. Corporations don't give a shit about preserving history, they only care about old games when old games make them money. If not for torrents and abandonware very few people could play Blade Runner today, and I don't see that as anything but a horrible possibility.
Posted November 23, 2011
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kavazovangel: Just wrote what I thought on the subject. Since they use cracks in their games (forget the whole publisher gave them permission crap, they gave them permission for the original exe, the modification done by the hacking group belongs to the hacking group, but whatever...)

Oh, and this is just a discussion, if anybody really got offended or something, he has something worse to worry about than me writing this feedback.
LOL, I'm not offended but rather amused as GOG and the community (my opinion only) are about as anti-pirate, anti-abandonware, anti-DRM as you can get. It's like preaching to the choir. It just seemed ironic you were making a post that basically slammed the GOG employee for deleting/locking a thread leading to those nasty cracks.

Sorry but we must disagree about GOG having permission to crack games being irrelevant. Thanks for clearing up my confusion. . . =)
Post edited November 23, 2011 by Stuff
Posted November 23, 2011
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kavazovangel: Since they use cracks in their games (forget the whole publisher gave them permission crap, they gave them permission for the original exe, the modification done by the hacking group belongs to the hacking group, but whatever...)
Then the hacking group can take legal steps against the use of their work. They probably won't do as they would have to take responsibility for their work, but that is THEIR option.

And anyone thinking there's a need for discussion about why threads with links to NOCD-sites aren't allowed on most boards, should at least TRY to see it from the company / owners point of view - obviously, some guys around here didn't bothered to go down that road.
Posted November 23, 2011
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kavazovangel: There is a reason copyright lasts 70 or more years.
Sure is, let me spell it out for you. ;)

M-I-C-K-E-Y M-O-U-S-E


Edit: added youtube reference if not obvious
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNK5KzI48mM
Post edited November 23, 2011 by Snickersnack
Posted November 23, 2011
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SimonG: Wouldn't the whole point of cracks beeing that you don't need go online/use Steam? All the cracked Steam games I've tried circumvent Steam completly (Up to a point I didn't notice they were actually steamworks).
mhm. maybe you are right. Its not something I have ever tested :)
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kavazovangel: the modification done by the hacking group belongs to the hacking group, but whatever..
no... no it doesnt
cracks are partially original code. the parts of it which are not are illegal. Therefore the whole crack belongs to the publisher.

Crackers never have any right to their work. Neither modders btw.
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StingingVelvet: This is not about whether abadonware is morally right or not, this is about your statement (and the statement of others) that it is the same as pirating a modern title.
Legally it is. there is no difference between pirating Wizardy 2 or Skyrim.
What you said is all about which is morally accepted and which one is not.
Post edited November 23, 2011 by lukaszthegreat
Posted November 23, 2011
the modification done by the hacking group belongs to the hacking group, but whatever..
Most stupid sentence ive heard. You cannot deduce any law from unlawful behaviors.

As a thief's possesion of stolen goods is not legally protected as pirates "work" isn't as well.

Nemo ex suo delicto meliorem nam condicionem facere potest
Post edited November 23, 2011 by keeveek
Posted November 23, 2011
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lukaszthegreat: Legally it is. there is no difference between pirating Wizardy 2 or Skyrim.
What you said is all about which is morally accepted and which one is not.
According to the DMCA just browsing the files on your disc is illegal. I don't even want to touch the legalities of this bullshit with a ten foot pole.
Posted November 23, 2011
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StingingVelvet: Whoooooaaaa there logic train, you done fell off the rails. People who go to abandonware sites are not the same as people who go to a torrent tracker to get The Witcher 2. You know that, you're just selectively ignoring it to try and make a snarky point.

People who go to abandonware sites are people who want to replay old games they're nostalgic for but they know they can't go get them at Best Buy, and they know amazon copies are exorbitantly priced due to the collectors market and are not guaranteed to work. It's pretty much the GOG audience in a nutshell, and it came about because no one was legitimately servicing their needs. The GOG ads, quite logically, are there to say "we're here now, we're doing this thing, come and get it." And that makes complete sense.

And there will always be games that can no longer be sold anywhere, due to licensing issues or whatever else. Blade Runner is probably a perfect example. If not for abandonware sites these games would be largely unavailable, and since no one really owns the games anymore to sell them, no one is hurt by the downloading of them.

TL:DR - Your black and white philosophy does not equate to logical thinking.
The people who crack a legally purchased game for personal use are not the same as people who go to a torrent tracker to get The Witcher 2. So what is your point?

TL:DR - Putting words in my mouth isn't going to help you understand my post; it will only obscure your interpretation of it.
Posted November 23, 2011
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lukaszthegreat: Legally it is. there is no difference between pirating Wizardy 2 or Skyrim.
What you said is all about which is morally accepted and which one is not.
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StingingVelvet: According to the DMCA just browsing the files on your disc is illegal. I don't even want to touch the legalities of this bullshit with a ten foot pole.
i don't know about that but i just pointed out the fallacy of saying it is not about morality :)

it totally is
Posted November 23, 2011
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lukaszthegreat: cracks are partially original code. the parts of it which are not are illegal. Therefore the whole crack belongs to the publisher.

Crackers never have any right to their work. Neither modders btw.
Wrong. What a modder makes belongs to that modder. If a modder uses original artwork/characters/whatever, that belongs to the company. But the modder could replace whatever they used from the original game and sell it as their own game, perfectly legally. This usually means replacing the engine which is a complete pain to do, so it isn't done very often. But it is legal.

The basic test is, who made this? A 3d model belongs to the artist, or the company who hired that artist. Using a mod without permission is actually copyright infringement (depending on where you live - in my country artists don't have to register works to get copyright, in some places they do).

Example: All the 3d models, textures, etc for Morrowind mods belong to the artist who created them, not Bethesda. The artist is perfectly free to sell those models/textures to someone else. Same thing goes for a story a modder created. Obviously, the story would have to be reimplemented in another game engine before it could be its own game, but the story itself could be turned into a book or comic or movie, with names changed, places changed, etc. Bethesda couldn't demand royalties from the artists.
Posted November 23, 2011
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Darling_Jimmy: TL:DR - Putting words in my mouth isn't going to help you understand my post; it will only obscure your interpretation of it.
I think you made your silly comparisons quite clear actually.
Posted November 23, 2011
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Darling_Jimmy: The people who crack a legally purchased game for personal use are not the same as people who go to a torrent tracker to get The Witcher 2. So what is your point?

TL:DR - Putting words in my mouth isn't going to help you understand my post; it will only obscure your interpretation of it.
You put those words in your own mouth. You got called out by a couple people at least for the same interpretation. You know what you're thinking better than we do, but the interpretation he's using is the one that naturally follows from the words and analogies you've used.

Plus, you're views are completely founded in your own suppositions about the circumstances. If Mr. Gog was really getting heat from the publishers you'd think that they'd know about that by now.

As it is, the most likely interpretation by the publishers is that Mr. Gog is bringing in sales by replacing free downloads with legitimate sales links.
Post edited November 23, 2011 by hedwards
Posted November 23, 2011
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StingingVelvet: I think you made your silly comparisons quite clear actually.
Source? I don't recall posting anything (at all) about the Witcher 2, let alone torrenting it.


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hedwards: You put those words in your own mouth.
What post are you people reading? I don't recall posting anything (at all) about the Witcher 2, let alone torrenting it.

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hedwards: As it is, the most likely interpretation by the publishers is that Mr. Gog is bringing in sales by replacing free downloads with legitimate sales links.
So you read half of my post (while missing the central theme of this thread.) Why would GOG's partners care about someone cracking a game for personal use if they don't care about cracking games for widespread infringing distribution? I don't know if I can simplify my point any further.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)Get your cracks here!(126 posts)(126 posts)
(126 posts)