Nirth: "It takes away what little artistic merit games have, it ruins the immersion of a game"

You must lack the skill to choose the right mods which may not be strange at all in case you usually ignore them. When was the last time you tried one?

SpooferJahk: I agree and disagree with what you have said, it is pretty annoying to see someone suggest that a certain game needs to be modded to the infinite degree to be enjoyable. If the original game was not enjoyable as it is to them without mods, then that game is not for them. I mean it bugs me to see people say the best way to play a game is to have extreme graphic mods to make it look better (or worse in some cases, the Duke Nukem 3D High Resolution pack looks much worse than the original sprites in my opinion). However, mods can be good in some cases to extend the life span of a game without the intent of making the original game obsolete. If anything, mods that just add more to the original game to make it different for a number in the high digits playthrough or give you something completely different that requires the original game are some of the best. Are they needed? No, but they are there for guys like me that have exhausted the original game so many times that they do not mind something different. For example, I have going bananas over the Brutal Doom mod for Doom, it changes every single thing about the original's gameplay but still retains the original's spirit, it is not necessary and I would not recommend it over the original game's experience, but I suggest it for those who played Doom so many times that they can predict how they will take down a Cyberdemon or two with ease.

On the subject of fan fixes... that I can agree with, it is great to see games like Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. have fixes that make the game much more playable than the latest patched versions, but it is a shame that it has lead to the mentality for developers to not work hard to make a PC game that actually works with very little oversights that require the fans to come in and fix it. The PC version of Dark Souls as you mentioned, could have actually been a great port if the effort was taken to make it exceptional. I understand it was a PC port from a Japanese game company, and from what I understand, Japan is not very PC friendly for games, but there have been previous ports of Japanese games that work fine. Silent Hill 2 and 3 are pretty good ports with very little issues that needed fixing in their time (Most of the fixes out there are just things to make them work on modern systems, and do not alter the original experience).

TaiPhoon: I have no biases towards any platform, I just like playing games. My preferred type of games are ones that you need to do a lot of thinking and more often than not, are found on the PC. The biggest thing I can't stand about the PC gaming community is the idea that you NEED to mod your game and that a game should be moddable. I know a lot of you are going to hate me for saying this but I do not like mods. I bought Skyrim on Steam recently and I have been enjoying it; when I mentioned on a forum that I have not downloaded any mods, every single "PC Gamer" reacted like I have just committed some kind of heresy. REALLY? I can see the appeal of mods, but I the whole idea that a game is unplayable without them is just sad. I'm completely against using mods; for reasons to long to list, I'll just list my top three. It takes away what little artistic merit games have, it ruins the immersion of a game and worst of all, it gives developers excuses to release unfinished games (Stalker) and poor PC ports (Dark Souls) perfectly knowing that the community will just "fix it". Counter Strike, Day Z and Team Fortress are not mods in my definition since they are trying to be their own games and are just using the game engine as a jump off point (Not saying I would download them)

Mod if you wish but do not bully other PC players into forcing them to mod a game or boycott a game just because there are no mod tools. MODDING IS A BONUS FEATURE, NOT A RIGHT! And please, stop acting like modding is the only thing that defines PC gaming from others.

TaiPhoon: As for the artistic merit part, image if the mona liza was panted over, the painted over part would be the mod. The fact that someone else can come by and paint over it and call that "the definitive version" or "it's incomplete with out it" fucks with any kind of claim to art. (compatibility mods and emulators excluded).

Sachys: Sausage!

misteryo: [with mustard]

I have modded your sausage!

NoNewTaleToTell: It's funny that you mention Skyrim. I played (unmodded) Skyrim quite a lot but it felt extremely empty in a lot of ways, mods actually made it feel well...complete. I don't just mean complete in terms of content, but actual fixes for the multitudes of bugs/glitches left in Skyrim after all the official patches. Many people even buy Elder Scrolls games not just for the vanilla game, but also for the available mods. That might seem weird, but in my (short) experience with mods, a lot ( a lot, not all, obviously) of of the mod created content is much more thought out (and lore friendly) than what was in vanilla Skyrim. Yes the game is playable and fun without mods, but in my opinion mods only help it.

Anyway, I think there is one mod that would completely change your mind on mods/modding, as there is one mod that improves Skyrim in ways that are simply profound. The mod is majestically titled "The Basket". You're welcome.

misteryo: [with mustard]

I have modded your sausage!

misteryo: [with mustard]

I have modded your sausage!

TaiPhoon: I have no biases towards any platform, I just like playing games. My preferred type of games are ones that you need to do a lot of thinking and more often than not, are found on the PC. The biggest thing I can't stand about the PC gaming community is the idea that you NEED to mod your game and that a game should be moddable. I know a lot of you are going to hate me for saying this but I do not like mods. I bought Skyrim on Steam recently and I have been enjoying it; when I mentioned on a forum that I have not downloaded any mods, every single "PC Gamer" reacted like I have just committed some kind of heresy. REALLY? I can see the appeal of mods, but I the whole idea that a game is unplayable without them is just sad. I'm completely against using mods; for reasons to long to list, I'll just list my top three. It takes away what little artistic merit games have, it ruins the immersion of a game and worst of all, it gives developers excuses to release unfinished games (Stalker) and poor PC ports (Dark Souls) perfectly knowing that the community will just "fix it". Counter Strike, Day Z and Team Fortress are not mods in my definition since they are trying to be their own games and are just using the game engine as a jump off point (Not saying I would download them)

Mod if you wish but do not bully other PC players into forcing them to mod a game or boycott a game just because there are no mod tools. MODDING IS A BONUS FEATURE, NOT A RIGHT! And please, stop acting like modding is the only thing that defines PC gaming from others.

TaiPhoon: The lack of immersion part comes from the fact you realize that part of the experience is not as intended as their a fan has tampered with it. As for the artistic merit part, image if the mona liza was panted over, the painted over part would be the mod. The fact that someone else can come by and paint over it and call that "the definitive version" or "it's incomplete with out it" fucks with any kind of claim to art. (compatibility mods and emulators excluded).

scampywiak: PC master-race privileged bastard. How dare you denigrate the ARTISTIC intent of his sausage. Not to mention the immersion factor.

SpooferJahk: I agree and disagree with what you have said, it is pretty annoying to see someone suggest that a certain game needs to be modded to the infinite degree to be enjoyable.I mean it bugs me to see people say the best way to play a game is to have extreme graphic mods to make it look better...

...Are they needed? No, but they are there for guys like me that have exhausted the original game so many times that they do not mind something different. (Doom cited)

On the subject of fan fixes... that I can agree with, it is great to see games like Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. have fixes that make the game much more playable than the latest patched versions, but it is a shame that it has lead to the mentality for developers to not work hard to make a PC game that actually works...