I never said to support games you disagree with but there are games being made for many niches currently. Surely there's something you can get behind out there?

And why do you try to persuade people to not play what they like? You'd rather they not play what they like just to further your own ends in the industry?

As for the last bit I changed it(tired I admit) to better reflect my meaning. Go look at it again if you have time.

Exactly. The biggest mistake is that games - by their nature an interactive medium - are trying to be cast more and more into a non-interactive role. Hiring a screenwriter to write for a videogame is one of the worst mistakes that a developer can make.

I referred in an earlier thread an EC episode about cutscenes, where series co-creator James Portnow discovered that many people involved in game development were basically frustrated filmmakers. I think this is a sign of the influence that these people have in the industry. They're not interested in showing a narrative by making games. They're interested in straight-up telling a narrative as a movie that has the facade of a game.

Wow...

You guys need to be more open-minded with new games :)

I'm not persuading people not to play what they like--I'm trying to get them to see things from an angle other than "this is pretty and has big explosions and exciting cinematics and is JUSST LIKE WATCHING AN INDIANA JONES RIPPOFF! So it's the best thing evar!" And I would appreciate it if you stopped trying to make it look like I'm attacking players, when in fact I'm attacking a philosophy.

New games.....ugh.....ooh shiny!, maybe me like.......ugh, games have no deep storylines anymore!.....ugh SMASH!

Me go back to basement cave....call me when games get better again.....ugh.

Will a lobotomy suffice?

Actually you are, even if indirectly and unknown to you you are in a way doing this.

Oh and btw trying to get people to change their minds on something they already like and are fine with also rubs me the wrong way.....at least for the reasons you seem to be doing it. IMO we should let people like what they like if it isn't hurting us physically or mentally......maybe offering some suggestions of new things to try along the way at most & that's it.
Nuke their brains from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Oh, ok... we should just let people do whatever they like, even if it's detrimental to the development of a medium we love?

At this point, I and others have said all that needs to be said, many times over. Now that you've resorted to "hilarious" caveman impressions, I think any semblance of a mature discussion is over.

We should let people do whatever they like because it's the fair and just thing to do. We should always put the basic freedoms and rights of humanity over our own personal wants, imo.

This doesn't mean you aren't free to change things however, but if all you can do is complain about things and try to lure others onto your side for your own reasons then I have no faith that you'll succeed with the current course of action.

(BTW you seem to be acting like certain game types are killing the entire industry or will kill it, literally and/or figuratively....this isn't and will never be the case IMO.)

And the caveman stuff wasn't directed towards you specifically, but those against newer games in general and was a JOKE. Or don't you know what those are where you live? :\

Hmmm... Brave words. But it wont happen.

Why is it so damaging? Can you honesty say that for instance uncharted hasn't got an excellent story?

Or Am I misunderstanding you? If so, then I apologize

As I said to him it isn't as bad as he's painting it.....and if he feels such he should try to change it. Probably won't happen though.

It's been stated several times over by myself and others. Go read post 40, and post 33.

"Damaging" might not be the right word. "Holding back" is probably a better way of saying it.

Well, if you think all new games are just about eye candy, try Deus Ex: Human Revolution. This one is a great example of how you can go about creating own story (much like in the original Deus Ex) anchored by a few key points fixed by the developer.

For me personally, The Witcher 2 is currently the best example of deep storytelling that makes you play the game at the very least twice, because you will be playing completely different games for big chunks of it. And, ahem, it is a new game, and it is shiny too.

The thing is, instead of boasting about changing the industry, the devs should pay more attention to the successes of the past (hate to sound like a broken record, but take again Deus Ex: HR, which is basically Deus Ex with modern graphics, the idea itself was done right ages ago), and try to improve in little steps over that to incorporate new features.

I think BioWare and Bethesda are slowly improving in that aspect too. Fallout: New Vegas imho was much more alive storywise compared to Fallout 3. And everything they had to do conceptually is convert Fallout 2 into 3D.

I agree with the other posters that the story is not that important in some types of games, and the "movielike experience" has its own appeal. One other genre where this movie feel could pay off is adventure. If you've seen Phantasmagoria or Blade Runner you'll know what I'm talking about.

To sum up, it took movies a while to become both enjoyably complex and technologically advanced, the gaming industry is a baby compared to it (and the movie industry is a baby compared to literature). I think the onus is on us, gamers, to vote with our dollars to shape the industry and support the devs like CD Projekt, BioWare, Bethesda, Quantic Dream, Crytech (ok, their stories suck but they honestly were trying to give us the sandbox experience with Crysis) and others who are pushing the boundaries, and making them aware of the limitations. I mean I have nothing against CoD style games, but it shouldn't be the only thing dominating the market.

Btw, has anyone tried Skyrim yet? I always felt that the Elder Scrolls games felt amazing at first in the sense that here you are in the giant world and all, but it became harder and harder to get excited about it due to mediocre storytelling and quest design (i.e., you run around but there's nothing to do, and interesting quests are short-lived and feel awkward). This whole trotting the dungeons, reading books about characters you're never to going talk to (and you wish you could) gets old after a while (actually, this is similar to the feeling I got midway into Fallout 3, and playing FNV: Old World Blues, which is arguably the best DLC for Fallout:NV). I am curious if the quests in Skyrim are less wooden and more Fallout-y like? Or is it just Oblivion 2.0 with dragons?

1. I never said they are all about eye candy or should only be about such. I just don't like being figuratively browbeaten for liking an "inferior game style/type" then what I SHOULD like. I think though that if someone likes a game then we should let them and not chastise them for it or complain about the inudstry for making such games we don't like.

And yeah Deus Ex(original) and the newer ones all the way....great games all around.

2. I didn't play TW2 yet but it sounds awesome. Someday i'll get to it(have huge backlog).

3. I don't like the boasting either as most times they don't acehive as drastic a change as they think they will so I tune it out. But to me, as long as people like what they're playing then we should let them. If we want different games we should find and buy them, or work to make more games we do/would like a reality somehow.

4. I just started FO: NV.....I hope it's good. (The intro seems nice)

5. Every game that one likes is a good game, regardless of what others think.....it's still good to those who like it. I agree with this.

6. I don't think it should dominate the market forever either......of course any type of game shouldn't dominate the market for too long.