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"If a control group can hold up to 12 units and I am 5 zerglings short of 6 full control groups, how many zerglings do I have ?"

What views about Kerrigan, the Swarm and death of the Overmind am I trying to convey by asking the question above ?
None. I'm describing a situation without any evaluation, passing no judgement.
As a freshman I've been taught that pretty much every statement has both a descriptive and an evocative component. On one end of the spectrum, however, were mathematical formulas (with moans on the other). While I know this is not the same thing, even when you add a tiny bit of context to a math problem, it still IS a math problem - stale, neutral and boring as ever.

But let me fix this for you guys:
"If Frederick got two beatings per day (which is terrible !) [...]"
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Vestin: "If a control group can hold up to 12 units and I am 5 zerglings short of 6 full control groups, how many zerglings do I have ?"

What views about Kerrigan, the Swarm and death of the Overmind am I trying to convey by asking the question above ?
None. I'm describing a situation without any evaluation, passing no judgement.
As a freshman I've been taught that pretty much every statement has both a descriptive and an evocative component. On one end of the spectrum, however, were mathematical formulas (with moans on the other). While I know this is not the same thing, even when you add a tiny bit of context to a math problem, it still IS a math problem - stale, neutral and boring as ever.

But let me fix this for you guys:
"If Frederick got two beatings per day (which is terrible !) [...]"
I don't get why the europeans posting are all okay (seemingly) with the beatings question.......I can understand if you guys don't see any racism in the questions, being from another country and all, but c'monnnn....there's nothing wrong with asking kids about how many beatings someone got as a math question? :\
Post edited January 07, 2012 by GameRager
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hedwards: That was in the late 90s and our schools had only been integrated in the mid 70s. In fact most of the teachers I had in grade school started out teaching in segregated classrooms.
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Avogadro6: Really? Why so late?
It was voluntary desegregation. There wasn't an official segregation policy in place up until that point, it was the side effect of schools being assigned on a neighborhood basis and up until sometime in the '40s neighborhoods around here would be white only and people wouldn't be allowed to sell to minorities in those neighborhoods.

Even when I was a kid apart from my next door neighbor who is Japanese American there were no ethnic minorities of any sort. That has changed in the last several decades, but it's still just about white only, mostly due to the expense of the houses.

On a side note, I actually went to the same middle school as President Obama's mother, albeit probably 30 years later.
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WBGhiro: Okay the question are... weird, but what's racist about it?

It says slave not black slaves or niggers, so clearly you have to be racist to interpret these questions as racist. Besides how many black slaves where called frederick?

Edit: so the questions were created as part of a history crosslesson. what's the outrage then?
You have to take it in the context of our nation's very troubled past with slavery and various race issues. It would be like asking "How many Jews can build a BMW in the week?" or "How many Jews can fit in each barracks?" in a German test.
You know what, forget it.
Post edited January 07, 2012 by orcishgamer
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hedwards: It was voluntary desegregation. There wasn't an official segregation policy in place up until that point, it was the side effect of schools being assigned on a neighborhood basis and up until sometime in the '40s neighborhoods around here would be white only and people wouldn't be allowed to sell to minorities in those neighborhoods.

Even when I was a kid apart from my next door neighbor who is Japanese American there were no ethnic minorities of any sort. That has changed in the last several decades, but it's still just about white only, mostly due to the expense of the houses.

On a side note, I actually went to the same middle school as President Obama's mother, albeit probably 30 years later.
Ah that was your city then, it sounded like you were talking about the whole NA. And I for some reason thought M.L.King died in late 50's - early 60's. Almost a decade too early.

Then again, in my defense, it's not really something you get taught in schools around here, even if it is supposed to. Most teachers just stop immediately after the WW2 events.
Post edited January 07, 2012 by Avogadro6
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GameRager: there's nothing wrong with asking kids about how many beatings someone got as a math question? :\
Nothing at all. If anything, it could spice up something that is boring and repetitive at this level of education.

Another example: imagine Jimmy, who associates the smell of oranges with his ex-girlfriend. Is it insensitive for his friends to eat or offer him oranges, just because he misses her ?
It's an EXTERNAL relation (to flex my ontological muscles ;P) that binds oranges with his ex. Oranges aren't trying to say anything. Here's the best part: as soon as Jimmy gets over his trauma, he will be able to look at oranges like other people do.

When I think of slaves, I think of Aristotle defining them as "talking tools" (and conversely: tools as "mute slaves"). Aristotle was also clearly and logically able to explain why women are inherently inferior to men. So what ? Am I supposed to pretend he never existed ?

Let's oppose REAL harm that comes to people, OK ? A story used to illustrate a math problem is just that - A STORY. There are many stories out there - some true, some fictitious, some a bit of both. Openly contrived stories that present events without passing judgement are as harmless as they can. It's only social or personal delusions that can make mountains out of molehills.
I'm working on an education master's degree right now. This is what happens when people with no clue what they're doing buy into the hype and try to be effective cross-disciplinary instructors.

Gad.
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GameRager: there's nothing wrong with asking kids about how many beatings someone got as a math question? :\
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Vestin: Nothing at all. If anything, it could spice up something that is boring and repetitive at this level of education.
They are children. Say that their parents beat them, and tell them its ok for them to do it. Then they go to school and read questions written in a way that makes it seam normal and acceptable, they will think its normal and acceptable. Remember, these are not adults that are capable of thinking on their own. They are children whose minds are not fully developed, and are very impressionable.
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GameRager: there's nothing wrong with asking kids about how many beatings someone got as a math question? :\
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Vestin: 1. Nothing at all. If anything, it could spice up something that is boring and repetitive at this level of education.

2. Another example: imagine Jimmy, who associates the smell of oranges with his ex-girlfriend. Is it insensitive for his friends to eat or offer him oranges, just because he misses her ?
It's an EXTERNAL relation (to flex my ontological muscles ;P) that binds oranges with his ex. Oranges aren't trying to say anything. Here's the best part: as soon as Jimmy gets over his trauma, he will be able to look at oranges like other people do.

3. When I think of slaves, I think of Aristotle defining them as "talking tools" (and conversely: tools as "mute slaves"). Aristotle was also clearly and logically able to explain why women are inherently inferior to men. So what ? Am I supposed to pretend he never existed ?

Let's oppose REAL harm that comes to people, OK ? A story used to illustrate a math problem is just that - A STORY. There are many stories out there - some true, some fictitious, some a bit of both. Openly contrived stories that present events without passing judgement are as harmless as they can. It's only social or personal delusions that can make mountains out of molehills.
1. If you think we should talk about beating slaves is ok as a math question(at best it's a semi-ok history topic to perhaps teach older children.) then I dunno what to say. :\

2. This isn't just about one person(or a small group's) dislike or something as simple as fruit(because it reminds him of a past bad relationship) here, but a nationwide stain on our history that is handled with kid gloves for obvious reasons in the US. As others have stated, you'd probably need to be a US citizen to understand if you don't already.

It isn't just jimmy(one person or a small group) thinking wrongly about a semi-related object like fruit here in a bad way, but how the subject of slavery is viewed as bad by many in the US and for good reasons.

3. No, but he lived long ago, and this is now. If someone says something racial and especially if they say it to such impressionable children whom it is their responsibility to be a role model and teacher to, then it's a problem imo. Also, if someone today(as in your Aristotle) case said or did something racial(unintentional or intentional), no.....it doesn't change what good they did for the world or society before that. It does make me look at them with a bit of disappointment though, especially if they continue doing such things.

4. It's not about harm physically but how such things used as teaching methods by teachers can get ingrained into the young minds they shape and what effects this may have as they grow up that bothers me somewhat. If they manage to encourage a certain unhealthy way of thinking onto our future generations then it isn't just a story anymore but a tool used to possibly shape them into what the person wants and not in a good way.
So which permanent harm has be done to the children ?
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kmonster: So which permanent harm has be done to the children ?
I dunno if any has been done, but the fact that it CAN be done in some cases(unintentionally or intentionally by teachers and other role models) means we should keep an eye on people doing similar and react as appropriate depending on the circumstances.
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kmonster: So which permanent harm has be done to the children ?
The issue tends to be that children will be subjected to many hundreds of minor incidents while growing up which tends to reinforce the status quo.

Not being allowed to marry wasn't really much of an issue, it was the many, many times that I was exposed to homophobic and generally disrespectful comments that made it a big deal. This is very much the same sort of thing.
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MobiusArcher: They are children. Say that their parents beat them, and tell them its ok for them to do it. Then they go to school and read questions written in a way that makes it seam normal and acceptable, they will think its normal and acceptable.
I understand what you're trying to say but it doesn't really follow. In our example slavery isn't presented as "normal", it's merely presented. Besides - a child might just as well think along the lines of
1* "Slavery is evil... I'm treated like a slave... Something's wrong !"
or
2* "Man, I hate being beaten once a week but this guy gets it TWICE A DAY ? That's awful !"

It takes SEVERE psychological pressure to convince someone violence is something good and something they deserve. We're talking concentration camp/gulag level of abuse. If anyone is subject to such treatment, a math problem is the least of their worries.
(Note - I'm not a psychologist, so the above may not be an accurate representation of reality...)

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MobiusArcher: Remember, these are not adults that are capable of thinking on their own. They are children whose minds are not fully developed, and are very impressionable.
But they do have to develop their minds somehow, don't they ? They can't be sheltered from such things too long. We need to give them things to think about and I don't think the very mention of slavery - let me reiterate - *in a neutral context* is going to do them harm.

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GameRager: 1. If you think we should talk about beating slaves is ok as a math question(at best it's a semi-ok history topic to perhaps teach older children.) then I dunno what to say. :\
Of all the people on this forum, I've never even dreamt of stumping you xD.

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GameRager: a nationwide stain on our history that is handled with kid gloves for obvious reasons in the US. As others have stated, you'd probably need to be a US citizen to understand if you don't already.
Cultural philosophers call this "post-colonialism" back here. While I understand the sensitivity of the issue, I also see how nonsensical it is and think we shouldn't dwell on it any more.

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GameRager: 3. No, but he lived long ago, and this is now.
Precisely. We have a different cultural status quo. Back then slavery was an obvious fact of life, right now pretty much everyone knows that "slavery is bad, m'kay ?". I dare you to create an example so audacious and convincing that a child would actually believe slavery is OK, while remaining exposed to our world which implicitly but firmly states otherwise.
It takes a LOT of saying "that ceiling is black as tar" to convince people.
Also - once you come up with your example, compare it to what we're discussing right now.

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GameRager: 4. (...) If they manage to encourage a certain unhealthy way of thinking onto our future generations then it isn't just a story anymore but a tool used to possibly shape them into what the person wants and not in a good way.
If only raising kids was THAT simple ;D ! Come on - that's crazy talk. Children don't change their outlook on the entire world based on an irrelevant math problem they solve one day... not the least of why is because they don't give a damn.
Consider computer games, movies, all of culture. They might be full of strong imagery... but separating reality from fiction is something we learn very early, isn't it ?
Jay Wilson's 9 year old daughter plays Diablo 3. Will she grow up to become a serial killer ? No, I think she'll just have a more vivid imagination and broader horizons.

Children NEED to be faced with... stuff.
Post edited January 07, 2012 by Vestin
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Vestin: Children NEED to be faced with... stuff.
Yes, but there's a time and a place for everything. Slipping something like that into a math course is completely inappropriate. It should be done in history or possibly English class, not slipped subliminally into a story problem.

If there isn't time to discuss it then there isn't time to bring it up. In the US we have an entire month during which to bring up issues related to slavery, time is not exactly limited for such considerations.