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P1na: I honestly don't think GOG is going to abandon DRM-free, at least not anytime soon. They're making DRM-free their own PR flagship, sacrificing everything else on its name, and as such they can't back out on that at this point.

That said, I don't think there's a DRM-free revolution either. There's no way suddenly tons of AAAs are going to be coming DRM-free. I would be OK if this turns out on all games being made DRM-free sometime around 5 years after release, though.
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ChrisSD: Honestly I think the very best we can hope for is that more AAA games become DRM free after a few years. But even that's being a bit optimistic.

There is a more realistic fight for indie developers. The lure of Steam is quite strong...
I don't believe that Steam has anything to do with this. Most genuine Indie developers can't afford to say no to being carried by as many stores as possible.

Also, few, if any, indie developers are in a position to release a AAA game in the first place.
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GabiMoro: Let's wait what this "regional pricing" really means!
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Shaolin_sKunk: Wrong. When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.
Sounds reasonable to me! Do we get to flail our arms around, too?
I had to go looking for this but it is relevant:

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/announcement_big_preorders_launch_day_releases_coming/post311

Speaking about the GOG survey which asked about DRM coming to GOG, TET said this:

"The community actually didn't seem to mind it, which is interesting"

Now, why were they even asking about this when a core value is no way, not ever? I guess the core value was on the table if people were okay with it at that time. A question does not get asked without some reason. And this goes back to what I was saying originally. The so called core-values are just marketing bs.

And of course, it is very interesting that the "community didn't seem to mind it."
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dirtyharry50: A lot of whining.
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Vaalesh: I hate to break this to you but in all aspects of life, money makes a lot of decisions. That's why economics exists, the entire field is a study of greed.

I will continue to enjoy GOG.com's services as long as they offer good games for good prices and the day they don't, I won't be here anymore. I don't care if the games are indie, new, old, what. I am just interested in getting good deals for as long as they offer them.

The fact that this website exists shouldn't really get your panties in a bunch because you have the same option I (that we all) do: stay or leave.
You are not breaking anything to me that I don't already know. I think you misunderstood my post. I've been meaning to post this view for a while actually. With the recent event that somewhat validates my view in my opinion, this seemed like good timing for it. One core value just got tossed. But this post is about a different one.

My view about this place overall is actually similar to yours except that it is further limited to just classic games and preferably for Mac.

The fact that this website exists doesn't bother me at all and I am well aware of my obvious options.
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Shaolin_sKunk: Wrong. When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.
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CharlesGrey: Sounds reasonable to me! Do we get to flail our arms around, too?
But of course! Expected even.
I agree. Dropping the "fair price" principle really leads to nowhere. DRMed AAA games are selling like crazy everywhere, so there is simply no reason why anyone would publish on GOG without DRM.

Lowering the shield will not gain GOG anything of worth. At least from my perspective.
Post edited February 23, 2014 by keeveek
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hedwards: I don't believe that Steam has anything to do with this. Most genuine Indie developers can't afford to say no to being carried by as many stores as possible.
Sure but I'm seeing more and more indie games that are Steam exclusives. This is not good but it is something i think GOG has a good chance of fighting.
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ChrisSD: Sure but I'm seeing more and more indie games that are Steam exclusives. This is not good but it is something i think GOG has a good chance of fighting.
I don't know about you, but I don't give a damn about indies.

Most of them end up in indie bundles in few months after release anyway.
My take on this is, GOG and other sites have been pushing for DRM-free releases for a while now. And they finally got something, at the compromise of implementing regional price. At this point, GOG had a choice: refuse and uphold the values they had been talking about, or give them up and have the games available.

However, my point is that once things were there, the game was going to be available DRM-free anyway at several stores. So GOG didn't abandon it's principle for the sake of releasing the game DRM-free and the revolution, they abanoned it for the sake of selling it here. They wanted a piece of the pie, simple as that.

But even then, they're still using DRM-free as the goal of everything they're doing, so they can't safely backtrack from it.
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P1na: My take on this is, GOG and other sites have been pushing for DRM-free releases for a while now. And they finally got something, at the compromise of implementing regional price. At this point, GOG had a choice: refuse and uphold the values they had been talking about, or give them up and have the games available.

However, my point is that once things were there, the game was going to be available DRM-free anyway at several stores. So GOG didn't abandon it's principle for the sake of releasing the game DRM-free and the revolution, they abanoned it for the sake of selling it here. They wanted a piece of the pie, simple as that.

But even then, they're still using DRM-free as the goal of everything they're doing, so they can't safely backtrack from it.
Oh yeah, there will be some kind of uproar here when it happens to be sure with an epic thread that dwarfs the current one about regional pricing. It'll still happen though I think. I would not be surprised if part of the justification for tossing that core value went something like this:

Well, it was a matter of being able to offer these AAA games here on GOG or not offer them so...

You know, kind of like they just said about introducing regional pricing because...

Also, I'd expect the first ones to be sorta minimal DRM, like just needing to enter a registration code or something and then more can come later. It is important to do these things in stages.
Post edited February 23, 2014 by dirtyharry50
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hedwards: I don't believe that Steam has anything to do with this. Most genuine Indie developers can't afford to say no to being carried by as many stores as possible.
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ChrisSD: Sure but I'm seeing more and more indie games that are Steam exclusives. This is not good but it is something i think GOG has a good chance of fighting.
That's something that happens, but the main question is about how many of those games are good? I know that Amazon does the same thing with their ebooks looking people up in exclusivity agreements whenever possible and it's rarely, if ever, a good deal for the content provider.

Ultimately, there's not much that GOG can do about that, some people are just idiots when it comes to running their business.
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dirtyharry50: All the marketing spin about core values, loving gamers, fighting the good fight, etc. was always bullshit. It was always marketing spin. People actually bought into the idea that this business which exists primarily to make money more than anything else by far was on some holy crusade just for them. They never were. They still aren't. Maybe employees of GOG even bought into this but top management is clearly all about the money, as actually is normal for any business. So you can expect GOG going forward to ALWAYS do whatever makes the most money over the long haul. That's right. They will ALWAYS do whatever makes the most money. They will do this in stages of course. Right now, they'll deal with this test of the waters and see how sales are impacted and go from there. But the march to more money will continue unrelenting.

You can forget about "principles" right now. The principle goal is to make money. Period.

We are not particularly important. Our money is and whatever means earns the most money possible is what is going to happen. That is why I say with confidence that DRM games on this store are simply a matter of time. You are never going to see a steady parade of AAA games DRM free. They sell like hotcakes on Steam already. They don't need to sell them DRM free. Publishers are not in any way compelled to sell DRM free. They lose very little if anything with relatively painless DRM as Steam proves without any room for argument. That's why Bethesda isn't here. They don't care. They don't need GOG. No major player needs any particular retailer. That's why EA blew off Steam on some titles with Origin. Those titles were big enough AAA fare that they could do that. And they all have DRM.

I hate to be the one who proclaims the emperor has no clothes and take the hit for it but I will. THERE IS NO DRM-FREE REVOLUTION. You've all been duped.

The only time there is no DRM is when the publisher doesn't care or values the spin for DRM-free at someplace like GOG.

I hate to break it to some of you folks but the revolution was over before it started. Steam won. DRM won. Game over. Look at always on Diablo III. 15 million copies folks. If you make a game people want to play in large numbers you can do whatever the hell you want pretty much and people will still buy it. Some of you may not but the DRM-free requiring crowd are in fact a minority. DRM-free here is just marketing spin most of the time for a whole bunch of stuff that wouldn't have it anyway:

All the old classics? Who would spend money to DRM these? Nobody which is why they don't. Sure, they crack the CD checks. Why? THEY HAVE TO SELL THE THING DIGITALLY. It has nothing to do with some holy cause.

All the indies? THEY ARE DRM FREE EVERYWHERE!

So, how much modern AAA do we have here that this "good fight" I've heard about has resulted in? Yeah, that's right. Zero.

But now thanks to regional pricing concessions on three unknown titles the floodgates will open? Seriously? Are people really going to buy into the marketing spin and bullshit yet again? Really?

I'm sorry but I am just tired of reading the same old crap over and over and over. GOG is not a church. There is no holy crusade.
Personally, I never thought there was a DRM-free 'revolution'. But I did think that if GOG were to grow and gain a good customer base, it would demonstrate, to some publishers at least, that DRM is not necessary nor does it help sales. Is this the effect it's having? I don't know, but if the regional-priced DRM-free games soon to be released here are truly AAA fare, then I think it wouldn't be too big a stretch to think GOG's business model may have had some influence on that.

But as far as your prediction about future DRM on GOG's offerings goes, unfortunately I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Time will tell. But if they do cave on the DRM, then I'll move on and shop elsewhere. To me, DRM-free games is the core value of GOG. If they ditch that, I'll tuck my DRM-free GOG collection under my arm and run.
high rated
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sheepdragon: Dotemu is also completely DRM free, but they've had regional pricing for a while. So, GOG is no longer unique in their business model, but so far they have a greater library of games than Dotemu.
Yes, about Dotemu: Dotemu is a shining example of how the introduction of regional pricing completely fails to make a difference. Despite caving in to regional pricing demands years ago, they haven't managed to get any top-tier titles on board (hell, they can't even get their own Final Fantasy 7 release out).

And yes, there is a reason why Dotemu has become even more obscure than the already-obscure Desura - GOG offers almost exactly the same games at a lower price. Why is that? Why, through lack of price regionalisation.

So at this point I'm going to call bullshit on GOG's claims that bringing games on-board was dependent on introducing regional pricing.

We all know that the problem lies in DRM.

So as for any DRM-free revolution, no, I don't think it's coming either. I don't really blame publishers, any more than I would blame a screaming, petulant child who has been poorly raised by its parents. I blame gamers for being such spineless, unprincipled, addicted morons who throw spasms whenever they don't get their quick fix. Not that I really care much any more. My PC gaming is pretty much limited to indie bundles and the occasional GOG title nowadays, with most of my serious gaming now being on PS3 and Wii U. I had hoped that PC gaming would recover, but such hopes have proven to be fruitless.
Post edited February 23, 2014 by jamyskis
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dirtyharry50: snip
it could certainly happen. GOG seems set on becoming one of the big boys, and at one point they'll have to choose between that and their reputation. I'd like to think they'll choose their reputation, but I won't bet on it.

This reminds me what we see on games: they want a wider audience, so they compromise the mechanics of their games to be more generic and copy the popular games so everybody can play it. Result typically being the audience that was into the other games, surprisingly keeps playing the games they liked instead of the games like the games they like; while the old fans get disappointed and leave. The course GOG has taken has a striking resemblance to that scenario.
It seems that these are the new 'Steam vs Gog' threads

Great job folks.
Post edited February 23, 2014 by Mr.Caine