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General discussion (archive)There Is No DRM-free Revolution.(120 posts)(120 posts)
(120 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 24, 2014
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dirtyharry50: There has been for some time now a certain tone on the forums at times where it comes off like this is the Church of GOG and with some fervor too. Those who are not church members at not treated with too much kindness either.
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timppu: So if I got you right, you had some old grudges from some old DRM or Steam discussions (towards those GOG forum members who don't like either), and now was your chance to get back at them? :)

That sounds bad. Sounds about the same as someone who likes to use also Windows, going to Mac and Apple forums to teach the Apple church members how wrong they are with preferring Apple products.
You don't got me right and I'm not going to repeat my apology. Once will have to suffice or feel free to reject it. Whatever pleases you.

You really have a thing about Mac, Apple, what computer I use, etc. None of that has anything to do with GOG games being released with DRM in the future, the abandonment of bs core values, etc. Are you really incapable of just sticking to a topic of discussion?

I think you need to work on your reading comprehension in English maybe. That's not intended as insult but the way you missed my point and add other points I never made makes me wonder how well you understood what you read. I am not trying to teach Anti-DRM people anything. I am pointing out misleading marketing only.

Let me make this crystal clear for you: I do not think that people who dislike DRM are wrong. I don't like it either however when it comes to AAA games, I accept reality and do not fool myself into thinking what I like is going to happen because I like NO DRM too. I'm just being real. That is all. I am standing up in the Church of GOG and saying that some of you must be crazy to believe the shit they are selling you. That is all. And I don't mind saying that to people who have no problem insulting me and others who accept reality and move on to gaming or perhaps like to use a different kind of computer, operating system, etc.

I hope that got through.
Post edited February 24, 2014 by dirtyharry50
Posted February 24, 2014
Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's been cd keys associated with some of the games on GOG since 2009 or so. I believe Unreal Tournament 2k4 was the first one that was sold with a multiplayer cd key you had to contact support for.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is there's been DRM-lite games sold on here for at least the past 5 years, it's just that no one noticed because the DRM was stripped from the single player versions.
Posted February 24, 2014
Does this region pricing thing will make Europeans and Australians rely on Americans to host giveaways?
Posted February 24, 2014
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Leucius: Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's been cd keys associated with some of the games on GOG since 2009 or so. I believe Unreal Tournament 2k4 was the first one that was sold with a multiplayer cd key you had to contact support for.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is there's been DRM-lite games sold on here for at least the past 5 years, it's just that no one noticed because the DRM was stripped from the single player versions.
Well, that doesn't burst any bubbles here but that is an interesting point. I'd forgotten I own some games from here myself that use keys, such as NWN. So I guess the first step will need to be some other form of it. I don't even want to get into whether that stuff = DRM or not. Whatever. I'm in enough trouble with some people as it is at this point. ;-)
Posted February 24, 2014
Speaking of steam keys. This is personally the reason why i stopped buying box copies of pc games. For if i wanted the steam version of the game, i would of freaking got it off steam or a place that sells steam keys. I have nothing against steam , i just personally don't want to use it. at all. Unless its for free games. Then yes i would totally be willing to use it. For its freaking free game, you would have to do something majorly big for me to not download a free to play game i'm interested in. Now if its for a game i have to pay for. then yes i'm going to rise my standards and rather do with out the game then put up with any bull shit or hassle. For i just want to freaking game, not jump through hoop after hoop like a trained animal at the circus.
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Sslaxx: "Core values"? They are a business, and a business has no values, core or not. Just selling points. Honestly? Steam keys would be a selling point for me - because Steam supplies Linux versions of games that GOG does not. If that was how GOG was to introduce Linux support in fact (indirectly via Steam keys), I wouldn't be surprised.
Personally i would still see that as steam supporting Linux, while gog only sold you a key. seeing how you are going have to use that steam key on steam, to get the steam version of the game and then use steam to play it. making it a steam game.

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Leucius: Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's been cd keys associated with some of the games on GOG since 2009 or so. I believe Unreal Tournament 2k4 was the first one that was sold with a multiplayer cd key you had to contact support for.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is there's been DRM-lite games sold on here for at least the past 5 years, it's just that no one noticed because the DRM was stripped from the single player versions.
I think cd keys might fall under copy protection and not drm or at least is not the drm we have come to know commonly through out this day and age. Like install limits and so on and so on.
Post edited February 24, 2014 by uruk
Posted February 24, 2014
DRM-free is and always has been the only interesting thing for me about GOG. Feel free to shoot me, but the added extras are nice and I still want them, but apart from sound tracks they rarely turn me.
I prefer to feel like I own my games personally, so for me DRM is a kick in the teeth, but with so many other stores having some DRM free games I will go and buy them from them. Recently I bought Red Faction 1&2, Clear Sky and a few other big named titles DRM-free on GamersGate because I could.
When the named titles then reappeared on GOG I will admit I re bought both sets, not because I had to, but because I like the GOG way of downloading better then GG and because I want to support the idea of DRM-free gaming. Now I burnt a copy of GG's installers when I got them and have now passed that over to my brothers to play from while I keep the GOG version myself.

I guess what I mean is - GOG are probably getting a little sick of seeing DRM-free games (some are old AAA titles) appearing else where years before them and they then miss out. I can see their point, but I wish they had been announcing DRM-free AAA games as coming to GOG+ or some such with regional prices, then hitting the core GOG with its single price strategy.
Also looking at the parent company does not fill me with fear, to date they have often acted independently of each other without problems. They can both do what they feel will gain them the most as companies, though we always know CDP holds the leash.
Posted February 24, 2014
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Leucius: Sorry to burst your bubble, but there's been cd keys associated with some of the games on GOG since 2009 or so. I believe Unreal Tournament 2k4 was the first one that was sold with a multiplayer cd key you had to contact support for.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is there's been DRM-lite games sold on here for at least the past 5 years, it's just that no one noticed because the DRM was stripped from the single player versions.
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dirtyharry50: Well, that doesn't burst any bubbles here but that is an interesting point. I'd forgotten I own some games from here myself that use keys, such as NWN. So I guess the first step will need to be some other form of it. I don't even want to get into whether that stuff = DRM or not. Whatever. I'm in enough trouble with some people as it is at this point. ;-)
You're not in trouble with me, for what it's worth. :)
Posted February 24, 2014
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dirtyharry50: Well, that doesn't burst any bubbles here but that is an interesting point. I'd forgotten I own some games from here myself that use keys, such as NWN. So I guess the first step will need to be some other form of it. I don't even want to get into whether that stuff = DRM or not. Whatever. I'm in enough trouble with some people as it is at this point. ;-)
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Leucius: You're not in trouble with me, for what it's worth. :)
Oh, good! Will you help me if they come with the torches and pitchforks? lol
Posted February 24, 2014
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Leucius: You're not in trouble with me, for what it's worth. :)
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dirtyharry50: Oh, good! Will you help me if they come with the torches and pitchforks? lol
Why noooo, i have not been using this thread to sell pitchforks and torches to the masses for a quick bit of coin. Noooo not at all. What ever would give you that idea?

random minion 43: We have finish covering up and hiding the ptichfork and torches shop boss.

Me: Dam it! not now!
Posted February 24, 2014
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uruk: Why noooo, i have not been using this thread to sell pitchforks and torches to the masses for a quick bit of coin. Noooo not at all. What ever would give you that idea?
Great! Then maybe now you can point me to a pitchfork & torch rental shop in the neighbourhood? A branch would be even better, given that I can switch locations with little notice. The thing is, pitchforks are really bulky and I can't travel around with those on the backpack.
Posted February 24, 2014
I knew I was gonna get in trouble for this bullshit. lol
Posted February 24, 2014
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uruk: Why noooo, i have not been using this thread to sell pitchforks and torches to the masses for a quick bit of coin. Noooo not at all. What ever would give you that idea?
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P1na: Great! Then maybe now you can point me to a pitchfork & torch rental shop in the neighbourhood? A branch would be even better, given that I can switch locations with little notice. The thing is, pitchforks are really bulky and I can't travel around with those on the backpack.
http://www.amazon.com/Inflatable-Pitchfork-Halloween-Costume-Accessory/sim/B000W9QHII/2
Posted February 24, 2014
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uruk: Why noooo, i have not been using this thread to sell pitchforks and torches to the masses for a quick bit of coin. Noooo not at all. What ever would give you that idea?
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P1na: Great! Then maybe now you can point me to a pitchfork & torch rental shop in the neighbourhood? A branch would be even better, given that I can switch locations with little notice. The thing is, pitchforks are really bulky and I can't travel around with those on the backpack.
Lucky for you i happen to have a pile of maps here. *throws you a map.* that tells you all the over 10,000 locations where you can find a flaming dark's torches and pitchforks rental shop. Also coming soon to flaming dark's torches and pitchforks rental shop acid touches! for these times when you need to chase trolls out of town.
Just a warning, if you visit the rental shop on 33 first evil street. Watch out for mark the troll. He has been known to eat stuff. We are trying to train him to not eat things that are paying us gold to rent torches and pitchforks. While last week there was this witch who came in flying on a pumpkin and mark ate the pumpkin.

Witch: Hey boss i through she was just a magical cat not a witch.

Me: i don't give a care. Point is just watch out for mark, if you visit the rental shop on 33 first evil street. He has not been fully trained yet. To not eat everything.
Posted February 24, 2014
You don't seem to understand. Even if the whole drm-free idea is propaganda, abandoning it would mean that they alienate their core audience and lose their identity. That is why I do not agree with you.

Also,GOG's business approach is far more pragmatic than the one steam espouses. In the long run it will ensure a loyal audience and perhaps even more developers will buy into the premise.

Since in essence, DRM is a flawed and dubious concept and does very little to circumvent piracy, truth be told. If anything it only lends some measure of solace to insecure developers.This is however an illusion since the people who purchase games legally are then left in the lurch due to some of crippling restrictions that DRM carries. Piracy today is an act of dissension far more than anything else.
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dirtyharry50: All the marketing spin about core values, loving gamers, fighting the good fight, etc. was always bullshit. It was always marketing spin. People actually bought into the idea that this business which exists primarily to make money more than anything else by far was on some holy crusade just for them. They never were. They still aren't. Maybe employees of GOG even bought into this but top management is clearly all about the money, as actually is normal for any business. So you can expect GOG going forward to ALWAYS do whatever makes the most money over the long haul. That's right. They will ALWAYS do whatever makes the most money. They will do this in stages of course. Right now, they'll deal with this test of the waters and see how sales are impacted and go from there. But the march to more money will continue unrelenting.

You can forget about "principles" right now. The principle goal is to make money. Period.

We are not particularly important. Our money is and whatever means earns the most money possible is what is going to happen. That is why I say with confidence that DRM games on this store are simply a matter of time. You are never going to see a steady parade of AAA games DRM free. They sell like hotcakes on Steam already. They don't need to sell them DRM free. Publishers are not in any way compelled to sell DRM free. They lose very little if anything with relatively painless DRM as Steam proves without any room for argument. That's why Bethesda isn't here. They don't care. They don't need GOG. No major player needs any particular retailer. That's why EA blew off Steam on some titles with Origin. Those titles were big enough AAA fare that they could do that. And they all have DRM.

I hate to be the one who proclaims the emperor has no clothes and take the hit for it but I will. THERE IS NO DRM-FREE REVOLUTION. You've all been duped.

The only time there is no DRM is when the publisher doesn't care or values the spin for DRM-free at someplace like GOG.

I hate to break it to some of you folks but the revolution was over before it started. Steam won. DRM won. Game over. Look at always on Diablo III. 15 million copies folks. If you make a game people want to play in large numbers you can do whatever the hell you want pretty much and people will still buy it. Some of you may not but the DRM-free requiring crowd are in fact a minority. DRM-free here is just marketing spin most of the time for a whole bunch of stuff that wouldn't have it anyway:

All the old classics? Who would spend money to DRM these? Nobody which is why they don't. Sure, they crack the CD checks. Why? THEY HAVE TO SELL THE THING DIGITALLY. It has nothing to do with some holy cause.

All the indies? THEY ARE DRM FREE EVERYWHERE!

So, how much modern AAA do we have here that this "good fight" I've heard about has resulted in? Yeah, that's right. Zero.

But now thanks to regional pricing concessions on three unknown titles the floodgates will open? Seriously? Are people really going to buy into the marketing spin and bullshit yet again? Really?

I'm sorry but I am just tired of reading the same old crap over and over and over. GOG is not a church. There is no holy crusade.
Post edited February 24, 2014 by Lionel212008
Posted February 24, 2014
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Lionel212008: You don't seem to understand. Even if the whole drm-free idea is propaganda, abandoning it would mean that they alienate their core audience and lose their identity. That is why I do not agree with you.

Also,GOG's business approach is far more pragmatic than the one steam espouses. In the long run it will ensure a loyal audience and perhaps even more developers will buy into the premise.

Since in essence, DRM is a flawed and dubious concept and does very little to circumvent piracy, truth be told. If anything it only lends some measure of solace to insecure developers.This is however an illusion since the people who purchase games legally are then left in the lurch due to some of crippling restrictions that DRM carries. Piracy today is an act of dissension far more than anything else.
I am not at all convinced that the DRM-free crowd who are so vocal here on the forums necessarily represent anywhere near the majority of GOG.com customers. I am inclined to think most gamers don't care that much about DRM so long as it isn't a significant pain in the ass to them personally. I'll point to Steam's huge customer base as an example of how many gamers do not mind at least some forms of DRM. So that is why I'd be very hesitant to agree with your view of this.

I don't know where you come up with the idea that GOG is somehow more pragmatic in their approach to business. Performance in business is measured by results and there's no question who has thus far demonstrated the more impressive results in a variety of ways, most importantly in terms of making money. Steam enjoys a loyal customer base as well, very many of whom really like the Steam client and it's various features for example. I understand some people do not like it but that does not take away the fact that many millions do and it has actually become a selling point, the fact that it has grown to be more than just a store but also a service.

One could argue that DRM does actually produce tangible results for publishers and perhaps they have done enough research to feel it has since they spend money on it they could otherwise take as more profits. The best example I can think of there is how often it may curb casual piracy among friends, family members and those lacking the interest or perhaps even ability to go scour the net for working torrents, etc. Some would not like taking the risks associated with running executables of uncertain origin as well for security reasons.

I have trouble believing major companies such as EA just throw away money paying for DRM without doing some homework and feeling certain that overall it continues to benefit them. It is easy to say they are stupid without having any clue as to the work they may do in making business decisions. That doesn't mean it is correct. People love to assume things are true that work for them or whatever argument it is they wish to make. I cannot say with certainty that I know but my bet would be that large successful companies do some research and make reasoned decisions about the use of DRM for their products.

I do not believe piracy is an act of dissension more than anything else. It probably is for some but I think most people who pirate software would do it for whatever reasons they have in any case. Dissension is a handy excuse though and people love to have those to justify their behavior so it would not surprise me to see that line commonly used in the "community." They are modern Robin Hoods of sorts, stealing from the rich and giving to themselves.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)There Is No DRM-free Revolution.(120 posts)(120 posts)
(120 posts)