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General discussionGoG, you need to get your patches policy straight(92 posts)(92 posts)
(92 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted September 08, 2018
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DyNaer: For the record, the client isn't mandatory there...
It is if you want the updates. And for the record it works the same way with Galaxy. Once the game has been downloaded you can take the game files downloaded via Galaxy move them anywhere you want and play them without Galaxy. It is not required.

It's only required for the download. Same as it is on Steam if the game is DRM Free.
Posted September 08, 2018
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You realize having to download 45GB over & over each patch is not a good solution ?

it's kinda forcing users to use the client atm, without telling it. No i'm not against client, but when one is supposed to be mandatory it should remain,

As i mentioed to Larian, i'm wondering if Larian just only update the games files through the client and let GOG handled the offline installers / including patches.

Im not in a hurriy, i'm mostly spealking for those who can't deal with this issue or don't want to use at all a client (even one on their computer).

And yes i know there were always problem with patches, but for this time its getting out of proportion in matter of file size to D/L regarding the patches...
Post edited September 08, 2018 by DyNaer
Posted September 08, 2018
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DyNaer: You realize having to download 45GB over & over each patch is not a good solution ?
No it's not and that is exactly why I would not artificially limit what tools I have to update my game.

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DyNaer: it's kinda forcing users to use the client atm, without telling it. No i'm not against client, but when one is supposed to be mandatory it should remain,
If you can download it without the client then it's clearly not required. It's just a pain in the ass without it, which I agree with you... It's not a good experience. Doesn't change that one has the option, howerver crappy it may be.

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DyNaer: As i mentioed to Larian, i'm wondering if Larian just only update the games files through the client and let GOG handled the offline installers / including patches.
GOG has always handled offline installers. I don't know if GOG can tell what files has changed once it has been uploaded to Galaxy's repo or if it perhaps because Laraian replaces the entire build (rather than just the changed files) which could be triggering a full repackage of the game for offline installers. So there could be something Laraian can do, but ultimately the offline installers are created by GOG and there could be various reasons why the have to do a complete upload of the game rather than a simple patch.
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DyNaer: This just insulting, you have re'spect on anyone there. Do me a favor go read the original post....
How is it insulting? It was a spimple fact. You said Steam isn't needed neither is Galaxy, as they work the same way.
Post edited September 08, 2018 by user deleted
Posted September 08, 2018
Since you are not a represtative from GOG or Larian, this discussion is just pointless.
Post edited September 08, 2018 by DyNaer
Posted September 08, 2018
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DyNaer: Since you are not a represtative from GOG or Larian, this discussion is just pointless.
Then why bring it up on a public forum if you don't want a response? Contact them privately and be done with it. All we can do is inform you what GOG has told us, however little that may be.

I don't have to be a representative of either to tell you how these kind of system generally work nor to tell you what GOG reps (like Judas and others) have told us which is that they create the offline installers.
Post edited September 08, 2018 by user deleted
Posted September 08, 2018
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timppu: However, if the requirement is also that there should be separate patch installers with only the changed files, I presume that is a big hurdle for fully automating the generation of the offline installer files, whether the update should be delta or incremental (or both), testing that the update really updates an existing game installation perfectly (and with incremental updates, that it updates all previous versions of installations perfectly), naming and editing the descriptions of the separate patches (from which version to which version they are meant) etc. etc.

I think the separate patches probably add quite a bit of manual work to the process.
Not really, as they already have implemented that mechanism for Galaxy and even use parts of it for the offline installers now.
Posted September 08, 2018
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If the game doesn't require the client, than i don't see why i should install the client to get the game patched, it's just absurd. I tell you what it's an obvious fact, There could be an issue &i could wait the issue to be sorted. But i NEVER got such problem like this for any other game....If the installer was smal in sizel that wouldn't be a problem,

And mind you some GOG staff members read the forum ....

Downloading any offline installer / patch / goodies still works with the GOG Downloader (yes i know it will be killed)
Some 3rd party Downloader Manager works too, atm i'm looking for an extension for Firefoxx (because Down them all is no more working with the Quantum version)

Downloading files with a downloader manager isn't a pain in the ass...

The ponly is ; and i don't know who is the culprit, why this game suffer a problem like ths (according to OP, that's not the onne, but id don't have them)....so before writting to gog support, i written to the Larian's

Larian seems much more active on Steam (which in a way is logical).
Post edited September 08, 2018 by DyNaer
Posted September 08, 2018
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DyNaer: You realize having to download 45GB over & over each patch is not a good solution ?

it's kinda forcing users to use the client atm, without telling it.
I'm doing fine without Galaxy (I don't even have it installed at the moment), but I also accept the drawbacks that may come without it, e.g. that many games do not get the separate update installers, and even for those which do, it is often kinda messy, lots of different updates which don't necessarily work over all previous versions of the game, etc.

My "solution" to that is to play the GOG games after they have become stable and are not getting constant critical updates anymore, Frankly, I would do that also with a client for single-player games (and am doing it on Steam), because even if the update itself is automatic with only a delta download, I recall cases when my old savegames have become invalid due to update(s). So either way, I usually wait at least until the game is in a such playable state that it doesn't necessarily need any more updates, in order to enjoy and finish it on its current version.

On the other hand, I don't oppose people _asking_ for separate offline patches. Sure, they would be nice in case they work (with all previous versions too), but I also understand the extra work and issues related to them, and that GOG has already kinda fixed that issue, by introducing Galaxy. That's why they are probably not going to invest that much time and money in improving offline installers, they are offered mostly as a barebones extra service for archival purposes, not as much for active use for in-dev games receiving daily updates.

I see it a similar way as wishing e.g. that the Galaxy client should be open source, and/or that GOG should make an official tool similar to gogrepo.py or lgogdownloader which lets you download all your installers in one swoop.

Sure, it would be nice, but I am not demanding (nor really even expecting) GOG to do it. No other digital store does that either. Same goes for offline patch installers, e.g. do you see patch installers released often for HumbleStore games, or any other store that offers games as downloadable installers? I didn't see any on e.g. DotEmu when it was still around, and I recall seeing one GamersGate game installer in the past that offered one hotfix patch file.
Post edited September 08, 2018 by timppu
Posted September 08, 2018
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DyNaer: You realize having to download 45GB over & over each patch is not a good solution ?

it's kinda forcing users to use the client atm, without telling it.
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timppu: ...a barebones extra service for archival purposes, not as much for active use for in-dev games receiving daily updates..

Sure, it would be nice, but I am not demanding (nor really even expecting) GOG to do it. No other digital store does that either. Same goes for offline patch installers, e.g. do you see patch installers released often for HumbleStore games, or any other store that offers games as downloadable installers? I didn't see any on e.g. DotEmu when it was still around, and I recall seeing one GamersGate game installer in the past that offered one hotfix patch file.
But the "barebones extra service" has always been one of the main points of GOG, having always offline installers with all the patches between versions to choose what exact version you want to install and play. It has never been an extra, on the contrary.

That's the difference with Humble or Gamersgate, for instance. Those stores have no patches because never had patches, and also, sorry and imho, that is a bad comparison because actually almost 100% of the games they offer are only for Steam. Of course you are not demanding them to have patches, no need to, you have the Steam client for that, right? and you have no other option. Other main point what makes GOG difference is their own versions of a lot of games from Humble-Steam or from Gamersgate. For example, in this last case, games they offered once apart from Steam were still original versions with the DRM included, like Securom. So, imo, your argument/comparison about what other stores do is not valid here because...

...there's no other store like GOG, sadly, so this all talking is also important to preserve what we have, the only digital store today that is compatible with older (ahem lol) gamers like me that want their freedom to choose what they want to play, when and how, after paying for a game (not a "license" to play, i mean lol). And for that, having the classic installers with patches is important, much more because we are here talking about new games, not classic ones, that are very big and which "final" versions don't have to be the good ones (well, in the case of DOS2, it's also because now we almost doubled the size of the installer when someone decided to bundle both games, Standard and Definitive together)

This is not demanding anything "new extra work" from GOG, only the same they have been doing all this years, something that always have been an important point for us to buy games heres, along with DRM-free, since the rest of modern stores forces you to have a more or less intrusive client to manage downloads that also forces you to install the version they want, even if that breaks your savegame, your mods, or if it's a hated patch that breaks balance and/or gameplay and ruins your fun with the game (i think this are the 3 main reasons to not update a game, but also there are some new abusive EULA, spyware software "for statistics", etc)
Post edited September 08, 2018 by Kakarot96
Posted September 08, 2018
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USERNAME:timppu#Q&_^Q&Q#GROUP:4#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:57#Q&_^Q&Q#Again, I don't see how that solves your problem(?) as you can't download offline (patch) installers on Steam either. You have to use the Steam client to download and update the Steam version.

With the GOG version you get a standalone (offline) installer version of the game which you can also download without the Galaxy client (for archival purposes), and on top of that you get the "Steam way", ie. you can download and update the game with a client, without having to download the whole installer all over again if you want an update.#Q&_^Q&Q#LINK:57#Q&_^Q&Q#
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Sorry, but I can completely understand why there is a big difference between Steam and Galaxy. I do the exactly same, but for me it is about what a store promises. In this case Valve never said „our client is 100% optional“, but GOG still claims this to that day and by doing so, they are plainly lying to my face and that‘s why I will never use Galaxy (or trust GOG with any new game), but have no problem with Steam, but seeing you for the GOG fanboy you are, you will not understand that.
Posted September 08, 2018
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john_hatcher: Sorry, but I can completely understand why there is a big difference between Steam and Galaxy. I do the exactly same, but for me it is about what a store promises. In this case Valve never said „our client is 100% optional“, but GOG still claims this to that day and by doing so, they are plainly lying to my face
GOG stated quite clearly what there intentions were, and never promised you anything. Steam never promised you anything. They just don't give a shit as long as they are making money. They don't care what ends up on their platform or what you end up getting. Businesses don't make promises; they lay out plans or their intentions. Those plans can and often do change over time. If you think any company is making you a promise then I have a bridge to sell you.

GOG said quite clearly that Galaxy would be optional, except in the case of online features (they even said you would need to be connected and have a profile in the annoucment video for things that required being online). They said they would maintain site installers. Every statement since then has remained consistent to those points. GOG told you exactly what they were going to do, all you had to do was hear it. You just don't like it.

Both of those statments (so far) have remained true to what they said. Neither of which is "lying to your face". One can argue one experience is better than the other and vise versa, but that doesn't change the above fact.

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john_hatcher: and that‘s why I will never use Galaxy (or trust GOG with any new game), but have no problem with Steam
Suit yourself, I really don't care honestly what people do use or don't use. I have more respect for people who refuse to use clients at all though, at-least they stand for something, even if it's something I largly think is "Cutting off the nose to spite the face". I can at-least see where they are coming from and can understand why they perfer to maintain complete control and want nothing getting between them and playing games.

But this broad "Steam is great; I tolerate Steam" response while positioning Galaxy as the devil with the board stroke of the keyboard is petty, idiotic and stupid and I have zero tolerance for it. Galaxy is way more pro-consumer. You have far more control over what features Galaxy offers. Far more control over updates. Complete use offline that never ask you to prove ownership. All while maintaing a similar, if not (in some ways) better experience.

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john_hatcher: but seeing you for the GOG fanboy you are, you will not understand that.
I have around 350 games on GOG, around 110 on Steam and countless more on Uplay, Origin, and the Windows 10 Store. I am far from a "GOG fanbody". I have no problem using any service.

I don't however use Galaxy, and then go on Valves forums complaining about using Steam or EA with Origin, or MS with Windows 10 Store (which arguably sucks) over arbitrary reasons because that would be stupid and make me a hypocrite.
Post edited September 08, 2018 by user deleted
Posted September 08, 2018
I think that the offline installer-patches is simply too compllicated to support to make everyone happy.
Especially if games recieves many patches, and a few big ones; that would mean that GOG should start having various combinations to satisfy whatever potential patch users could have.

Personally, the offline installer is just that; the full game standalone.
If I were GOG I would go with two extreme:
* Just provide installer for latest version. No patches.
* Provide installer for first version and discreete patches afterwards (yes, you have to go trough all of them)

Easy patching is what the Galaxy is for.
Posted September 08, 2018
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john_hatcher: Sorry, but I can completely understand why there is a big difference between Steam and Galaxy. I do the exactly same, but for me it is about what a store promises. In this case Valve never said „our client is 100% optional“, but GOG still claims this to that day and by doing so, they are plainly lying to my face and that‘s why I will never use Galaxy (or trust GOG with any new game), but have no problem with Steam, but seeing you for the GOG fanboy you are, you will not understand that.
You are clearly wrong as I am able to install and play my GOG games without Galaxy.

Nothing has really changed on GOG over the years, apart them offering the Galaxy client as an option, and offering multiplayer through it too (earlier the GOG versions usually just lacked the multiplayer part altogether, while the Steam version had it).

It never was a norm on GOG that there would be separate patches offered for the installers. Some games have and had them, most didn't. As GOG kept getting newer and bigger games + online multiplayer games (which require everyone to be running the same version of the game) to its store, the need for delta auto-updates with a client became evident. So they solved that issue, by introducing Galaxy.

It is still fully possible to install and play those single-player games without Galaxy, as I am doing.

So since you are nitpicking about "what has been promised", GOG has never promised that their games will have offline patches. Yet, sometimes they do, sometimes not.
Post edited September 08, 2018 by timppu
Posted September 08, 2018
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DyNaer: Downloading any offline installer / patch / goodies still works with the GOG Downloader (yes i know it will be killed)
Some 3rd party Downloader Manager works too, atm i'm looking for an extension for Firefoxx (because Down them all is no more working with the Quantum version)
If you find one please please let me know.
Posted September 08, 2018
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mm324: If you find one please please let me know.
Surething :-)

I know the dev of the extension is mad about Mozilla.

Right now only way around (i found) to continue to use Down them All is to use Waterfox ; a fork of Firefox which allows to use older extensions such as DTA and restore some freature removed from Mozilla....

https://www.waterfoxproject.org/en-US/waterfox/new/

Still, need to be tested with the GOG website, i just found it only recently,because Firefox ESR version shifted to the Quantum version :/
Post edited September 08, 2018 by DyNaer
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGoG, you need to get your patches policy straight(92 posts)(92 posts)
(92 posts)