I just read the news that on your indepence day yesterday (11-11-11) there was an excess of left radicals and right radicals.
What shocked me that the motherfucking German ANTIFA ("Anti"-Fascist) were interfering the "March of Independence" and even became violent against Polish civilians.

Of all nations which had to let the cat out of the beg it had to be the fucking Germans again. In the historical place where Hitler ordered the systematical flatten the Polish riot 1944, and with it, the whole town.

So, Poles, sorry about that. Give those assholes hell.

From what I have read is that a majority of those German leftists/right-wingers were actually there because they were invited by the various groups. How true this actually is I have no idea.

A big part of the problem was the fact that the city allowed two groups with opposing ideologies to have their demonstrations in the same place. What they should have done is given the Antifa a seperate place to protest from without blocking the march of the nationalists. Or not allow either group to protest or march but then you get into that whole "limiting the freedom of speech" bit. All in all, it was a right mess.

Also, I have no idea why a reconstruction group in SS uniforms was marching around as well. They too got attacked by German Antifas or nationalists.

I am still in shock that our Gay Pride parades can come off without too many problems. You would think people would get into confrontations during that politically sensitive event.

Funny thing is, a lot of the Germans actually went peacefully into the hands of the local police after a while. I read that they got released but many of them did not see any fines. http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1,114883,10633449,Niemieccy_anarchisci_na_wolnosci__Wiekszosc___bez.html.

That's very probable. The same happened here in Wrocław, where Forza Nouva was invited to participate in march.

Would be nice if you post a source that shows that the antifa was part of the violence. There is a kind of violence tourismus, groups aggregated and called as the black block (schwarzer Block) travels especially to demos mostly interested in fights with the police or other partys. You will find them also on demonstrations against globalisation (attac), nuclear power, but I would not generalize it like saying all left-sided are like that. As far as I know the Antifa said they want to show support, no word about violence. The problem here is that many aggressive subgroups used this also to show up, knowing with agressive members on both sides there will something happen. Don't get me wrong, I'm sorry for what happened and I believe the more peaceful groups need to do a better organisation to prevent that something like that will happen again

Edit: Ok, from judasciscariot post I can see there was the typcial game of cat-and-mouse you find on most demonstrations like that - block the other demo from their route to show they have no power. That's exactly what happens here on most demos and need a good coordination of the police that both groups don't get in touch. So yes, there is a high risk of violence, but for many groups that's not the goal. Problems here is that some smaller groups speculate that in situations like this there will be enough chaos to have some fights.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8OkQ-XGHEPw

It states that Germans were arrested. If you follow several pics on those leftist demonstrants you can see the banner with "ANTIFA" written big on it.

And two more:
http://www.mz-web.de/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=ksta/page&atype=ksArtikel&aid=1321170755176
http://diepresse.com/home/politik/aussenpolitik/707878/Polen_Zusammenstoesse-zwischen-Rechten-und-Linken?_vl_backlink=/home/politik/aussenpolitik/index.do

They were released from custody, but they will be a court trial in December.

Got any non-Gazeta Wyborcza links to that? All I got was that they were released without charges (bez zarzutow). Damn GW says one thing then another.

"We are at war with Eurasia. We are at war with Oceania. We have always been at war with Oceania." <----------------- Gazeta Wyborcza in a nutshell.

The antifa was there and very likely also in the first line to block the other demonstration route, but that doesn't mean that the antifa called for violence. There is of course a high risk to get in trouble and to be in the middle of the action, but again, their goal is to block the other route, not to attack them.

Edit: Ok, your articles show that there seemed really some of the group were involved in the action. That's of course not acceptable.

The polish paper "Rzeczpospolita" told that the Antifa spit on some civilians and became palpable. I don't have the link, I might get that later.

Ah, here it is:
http://www.rp.pl/artykul/750702-Zatrzymano-bojowkarzy-z-niemieckiej-Antify.html

Excuse me, but blocking "the other route" was unacceptable at all, too.

It was the March of Independence, as 11.11 is the anniversary of Poland back on the map after 123 years.

It was celebration of our independence, and it is completely unacceptable that someone might try to block "the other route". Even peacefully.

Especially the Germans.

The question was who started the violence and who was involved. That what I wrote was more a description what normally happens on demonstrations and without any judgement what's wrong or right, because I don't know what exactly happened. The only what I see and can say is that I'm sorry that your national celebration day was instrumentalised by two politican groups.

Well, that's awkward in this case, but that's it, I'm not even sure if those ppl consider themselves as Germans.

What's really unacceptable for me personally, it's that some of the Poles consider such celebration as something inappropriate.



In my opinion it started when someone thought it's ok to block a legal march. Blocking someone from doing something legal is a violence. Period.

And it led to more violence.

Normally I would say yes, but that's always not so easy. As example, there was a right-wing demo planed on the going through dresen on the bombardement memorial day. The demonstration was legal because of the right of free expression. In cases like this it's not easy to judge if you let the demo just go because it's legit or you accept at some point peaceful civil disobedience.

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/neonazi-demo-in-dresden-marsch-und-menschenkette-1.1059190

And yes, most of the antifa people dont' believe in nationals, political motivations are more important. Btw, there is also a polish antifa.

They are totalitarian and anti-democratic and want to destroy "the capitalistic system", which is ironic since they are getting financated by social welfare.