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Titanium: But it had mostly to do with the fact that my internet connection at the time was shit, not the client tbh
But... Steam doesn't stop you from installing the game from disc...
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Titanium: But it had mostly to do with the fact that my internet connection at the time was shit, not the client tbh
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keeveek: But... Steam doesn't stop you from installing the game from disc...
You have to be online to install a game from disc, and when you are and steam sees there is an update you are forced to download it before playing. The one time I installed from a retail disc, Steam already started downloading stuff as the install was going on. So if your connection is bad you still have to wait before playing your game when doing an install. You just might have to wait less depending on how much of the game has changed.
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Fictionvision: You have to be online to install a game from disc, and when you are and steam sees there is an update you are forced to download it before playing. The one time I installed from a retail disc, Steam already started downloading stuff as the install was going on. So if your connection is bad you still have to wait before playing your game when doing an install. You just might have to wait less depending on how much of the game has changed.
This is true. I had that problem, but only once. When I first installed steam, it was probably for FEAR2 - I had 512kbps net connection then - downloading 2 gigs of multiplayer patches to play singleplayer campaign was a real pain in the ass, I give you that...
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keeveek: But... Steam doesn't stop you from installing the game from disc...
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Fictionvision: You have to be online to install a game from disc, and when you are and steam sees there is an update you are forced to download it before playing. The one time I installed from a retail disc, Steam already started downloading stuff as the install was going on. So if your connection is bad you still have to wait before playing your game when doing an install. You just might have to wait less depending on how much of the game has changed.
I'm not the only one... My Shogun 2 is unplayable cause I've to download 12 gigs of updates on a roughly 200kbps with only 5gig of download limit a month... big waste of money...
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Gersen: With this kind of mentality we would still have DRM on audio files and limited activation... a small minority might be unlikely to change things but on the other side a silent majority never will change anything.
DRM on songs was changed because people didn't like it. People like Steam. Critical difference.

It's not that the majority don't care, as amok says. That is not the case. The majority care, and they PREFER Steam.
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Gersen: With this kind of mentality we would still have DRM on audio files and limited activation... a small minority might be unlikely to change things but on the other side a silent majority never will change anything.
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StingingVelvet: DRM on songs was changed because people didn't like it. People like Steam. Critical difference.

It's not that the majority don't care, as amok says. That is not the case. The majority care, and they PREFER Steam.
Technically most PC gamers I know personally just pirate games as it's pretty much the same as digital distribution except free and there's not much drawbacks.
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McDon: Technically most PC gamers I know personally just pirate games as it's pretty much the same as digital distribution except free and there's not much drawbacks.
Are the majority of PC gamers you know in the lowest income bracket and/or in the 18-25 demographic? If so, I'd suggest that it's not actually the DRM that's the reason for that, even if that is the stated reason...
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StingingVelvet: DRM on songs was changed because people didn't like it. People like Steam. Critical difference.
The majority liked iTune & iPod and they didn't gave a damn about DRMs.

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StingingVelvet: It's not that the majority don't care, as amok says. That is not the case. The majority care, and they PREFER Steam.
Like it prefer fat saturated food, reality TV and Farming Simulator is one of the best selling PC games series ever created...

No problem with that... but saying that, just because the majority like/prefer/think something then everybody should accept it and live with it is just beyond silly... not to mention pretty dangerous; and I am not just talking only about Steam but in general.
Post edited January 20, 2013 by Gersen
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Gersen: The majority liked iTune & iPod and they didn't gave a damn about DRMs.
Most people I know who really cared about music refused to shop on iTunes because it had a low bitrate and DRM. On the other hand most people I know who really care about games prefer Steam over DRM free because of the client advantages, social features, ease of use and lack of DRM that bothers them (SecuROM, limited activations, etc.)

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Gersen: Like it prefer fat saturated food, reality TV and Farming Simulator is one of the best selling PC games series ever created...

No problem with that... but saying that, just because the majority like/prefer/think something then everybody should accept it and live with it is just beyond silly... not to mention pretty dangerous; and I am not just talking only about Steam but in general.
I'm not saying Titanic and Avatar are the best movies ever made or that humans are infallible. What I am saying is that if you're making a game for the PC and the vast majority of your audience want it on Steam and to have Steam features, then you please that audience.

You can't yell at companies for doing what their consumers want. You can't pretend your minority fringe is more relevant.
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Gersen: No problem with that... but saying that, just because the majority like/prefer/think something then everybody should accept it and live with it is just beyond silly... not to mention pretty dangerous; and I am not just talking only about Steam but in general.
I for one totally agree with the sentiment! The thing is however, that having a vocal minority pressure for changes that would concern everyone is equally dangerous, in general. In this specific case it's the question of cost and efficiency: forcing Paradox too keep a financially unreasonable business model will lead to them having less capital to produce high-quality content.

So the best way to combat restrictive DRM is not by a righteous outcry, but by making DRM-free cost-efficient; voting with your wallets. Or starting a business modelled to make DRM-freedom synonymous with it's brand and hopeful success (as GOG did).

I for one did my share and bought every Paradox title on GamersGate, mainly because it's a store owned by them and I hoped that they would get a larger cut of my payment. But I understand their decision, and though it saddens me deeply, I will not blame them for it - they are professionals and deserve to be paid for their (outstanding) work and pursue the most beneficial way for them to do it.
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StingingVelvet: Most people I know who really cared about music refused to shop on iTunes because it had a low bitrate and DRM. On the other hand most people I know who really care about games prefer Steam over DRM free because of the client advantages, social features, ease of use and lack of DRM that bothers them (SecuROM, limited activations, etc.)
Well most peoples I knew at that time who care about music didn't knew it was actually possible to buy music online legally somewhere else than on iTune nor that is was possible to load non-iTune music on their iPod and most peoples I know who really care about games play them on consoles.

More seriously iTune was extremely successful before they decided to get rid of DRMs, it was mostly a PR stunt (which for once was a good thing for customers), but I doubt it was really something the "needed" to do.

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StingingVelvet: You can't yell at companies for doing what their consumers want. You can't pretend your minority fringe is more relevant.
Of course you can, why wouldn't you ? After all you are one of their customers too, if they do something you don't like then you perfectly have the right to tell them so, whenever you are in the huge majority or in a tiny winy the minority is totally irrelevant.
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StingingVelvet: People like Steam. A small minority who do not changes nothing. The sooner you accept it the better your gaming experience will be.
I did accept it. That's why I don't game on PC anymore. And I'll tell you what - my gaming experience has been a heck of a lot better for it.
Post edited January 20, 2013 by jamyskis
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VoodooEconomist: I for one did my share and bought every Paradox title on GamersGate, mainly because it's a store owned by them
(Paradox no longer owns GG, or only did so up to 2009, I think. It is its own company and have no official relations with Paradox (like gOg is a sister company of CD red). Unofficial is something else.)
First World Problems !!
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VoodooEconomist: I for one did my share and bought every Paradox title on GamersGate, mainly because it's a store owned by them
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amok: (Paradox no longer owns GG, or only did so up to 2009, I think. It is its own company and have no official relations with Paradox (like gOg is a sister company of CD red). Unofficial is something else.)
I don't know about the corporate structure of Paradox and GG, but in case of CDPR/GOG it's actually more complex, since CDPR is the successor of the Optimus S.A. holding, so cdp.pl Sp.z o.o., GOG Ltd amd Porting House Sp. z o.o. are all subsidiaries of CDPR (which is a listed company on the Warsaw Stock Exchange, while GoG.com is a Limited Liability company).