It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
avatar
Theta_Sigma: Well, thing is the Time Lords put the cap in place for a 3 pronged reason: 1) Due to genetic instability of early regeneration methods after 12 regenerations
Hey, the Master's always stayed cOMplEteLy SAnE, what's your point?! ;)

(in fairness, he's stayed as sane as he always was :)
avatar
Theta_Sigma: 2) as a method of artificially controlling Time Lords so no one could usurp Rassilon (haha and we know how well THAT worked out) and 3) as a means keeping Renegade Time Lords and outsiders from abusing regeneration techniques (I can think of two examples off hand that did). Now, yes the master did get offered a new set (technically twice if you count the Time War) during the Five Doctors, but I'm not sure if he ever got them. And there are a slew of info on different ways regeneration is accomplished (one being energy packets that get released upon need/will).

Well to be fair that was actually stated to be nothing more than a joke by RTD. However, I know they are going to pull the limit from him. Hell the 50th could be the release of the Time Lords, and them granting him more regenerations for all I know. For the sake of Trial of a Time Lord alone, hopefully proves they get released at some point. Who knows though. :P
Yeah, they'll resolve it somehow. I must admit for myself, I've always taken the 13 incarnation limit with a pinch of salt, it's a loosely established thing and there are plenty of get-outs. If the Time Lords don't return then there's no longer anything to limit it, if they do then they can grant more regenerations. I quite like the idea of the Universe not being able to let the Doctor go, too :) And River gave him all her remaining regenerations in Let's Kill Hitler, that could give him a few more. And there's a whole slew of other possibilities!

avatar
bevinator: I really hope they don't do this. I'm perfectly okay with female Time Lords, in fact Romana I is one of my favorite companions. But having the Doctor regenerate as female would violate all sorts of precedents in addition to forcing the writing staff to make a whole new dynamic.

One of the biggest weaknesses of the new series IMO is that the Doctor is the ONLY Time Lord. Sure, it makes him all angsty and whatnot, but I always found Time Lord interference to be much more interesting.
There's always Romana off somewhere in E-Space, and Susan - I like to think they escaped :) And House had found others in The Doctor's Wife, so there were some who escaped the Time War. Maybe there's a few more resourceful renegades carrying fob watches around...
avatar
Timelord1963: There's always Romana off somewhere in E-Space, and Susan - I like to think they escaped :) And House had found others in The Doctor's Wife, so there were some who escaped the Time War. Maybe there's a few more resourceful renegades carrying fob watches around...
and there is the Doctors 'Daughter'. (well, gender switched clone, really)
...who is IRL the Fifth Doctors Daugther and is married to the Tenth Doctor...
avatar
Theta_Sigma: Well, thing is the Time Lords put the cap in place for a 3 pronged reason: 1) Due to genetic instability of early regeneration methods after 12 regenerations
avatar
Timelord1963: Hey, the Master's always stayed cOMplEteLy SAnE, what's your point?! ;)

(in fairness, he's stayed as sane as he always was :)
avatar
Theta_Sigma: 2) as a method of artificially controlling Time Lords so no one could usurp Rassilon (haha and we know how well THAT worked out) and 3) as a means keeping Renegade Time Lords and outsiders from abusing regeneration techniques (I can think of two examples off hand that did). Now, yes the master did get offered a new set (technically twice if you count the Time War) during the Five Doctors, but I'm not sure if he ever got them. And there are a slew of info on different ways regeneration is accomplished (one being energy packets that get released upon need/will).

Well to be fair that was actually stated to be nothing more than a joke by RTD. However, I know they are going to pull the limit from him. Hell the 50th could be the release of the Time Lords, and them granting him more regenerations for all I know. For the sake of Trial of a Time Lord alone, hopefully proves they get released at some point. Who knows though. :P
avatar
Timelord1963: Yeah, they'll resolve it somehow. I must admit for myself, I've always taken the 13 incarnation limit with a pinch of salt, it's a loosely established thing and there are plenty of get-outs. If the Time Lords don't return then there's no longer anything to limit it, if they do then they can grant more regenerations. I quite like the idea of the Universe not being able to let the Doctor go, too :) And River gave him all her remaining regenerations in Let's Kill Hitler, that could give him a few more. And there's a whole slew of other possibilities!

avatar
bevinator: I really hope they don't do this. I'm perfectly okay with female Time Lords, in fact Romana I is one of my favorite companions. But having the Doctor regenerate as female would violate all sorts of precedents in addition to forcing the writing staff to make a whole new dynamic.

One of the biggest weaknesses of the new series IMO is that the Doctor is the ONLY Time Lord. Sure, it makes him all angsty and whatnot, but I always found Time Lord interference to be much more interesting.
avatar
Timelord1963: There's always Romana off somewhere in E-Space, and Susan - I like to think they escaped :) And House had found others in The Doctor's Wife, so there were some who escaped the Time War. Maybe there's a few more resourceful renegades carrying fob watches around...
True, but my comment was more or less directed at Rassilon and his sometimes good guy, sometimes batshit crazy lunatic personality depending on the regeneration.

I have taken the rule of 13 as canon only because it was made far more serious than it really was meant to be. I really don't think it should have been "a thing", though the Doctor regenerating a 13th time into Death does lay some credence to it. That being said though, I have no doubt they will find some work around, and with the regenerations he incurred from River, he could have many more that way. I want to see the return of the Time Lords with them imprisoning Rassilon and trying to make amends, and by giving the Doctor more regenerations for them following a madman into war. Perhaps Rassilon taking on a more shadowy and darker antagonistic role ala The Black Guardian though corporeal. I am actually quiet curious how they intend to "fix" his lack of regenerations.

Well that depends if Romana was still in E-Space or if her appearance in the books was canon. Susan, hmm who knows if she survived, I would like to think so since she never regenerated on screen so it is possible to see her make a comeback IF she survived. Well to be fair about House, there is no telling how long ago he killed those Time Lords, it could have been long before the Time Lock was put in in place. I always felt for the Doctor in that episode when he had that glimmer of hope of not being alone, and having it snatched away from him. It would be interesting to see if and how any Time Lords were to survive though.
avatar
Timelord1963: There's always Romana off somewhere in E-Space, and Susan - I like to think they escaped :) And House had found others in The Doctor's Wife, so there were some who escaped the Time War. Maybe there's a few more resourceful renegades carrying fob watches around...
avatar
Lifthrasil: and there is the Doctors 'Daughter'. (well, gender switched clone, really)
...who is IRL the Fifth Doctors Daugther and is married to the Tenth Doctor...
Why do I suddenly hear the banjos from Deliverance going. LOL jk

Actually, that is a valid point, clone or not, she IS a full blooded Time Lord. It would be nice to see her make a return into the series some how being plot pivotal to an arc or mini-arc.
Post edited June 02, 2013 by Theta_Sigma
avatar
Timelord1963: Just regarding the regeneration cap, it means nothing really! The Master survived (and still does) long after his last regeneration was used up and the Timelords even offered him a whole new regenerative cycle if he helped them in The Five Doctors. It's just an arbitrary limited number, something that the Timelords control, or rather controlled, but they are no more... Therefore infinite Doctors :) (almost sounds like a book!).

The Doctor also says something about having 500-odd regenerations in The Sarah Jane Adventures (The Death of the Doctor). So just Eleven is fine :D
Point well taken!

Also, in "The Doctor's Wife" episode, where the Doctor, Amy, and Rory go into the dimension with the being that consumed time lords, the T.A.R.D.I.S. took human form and told the doctor about something regarding what happened with a doctor in his 30th regeneration or so (somewhere in the 30s). The Doctor himself said that's impossible,but the T.A.R.D.I.S. begged to differ :)

I really enjoyed this episode. It just so happened Neil Gaiman wrote it, even though it had to be butchered/condensed a bit because he wrote so much awesome stuff, it couldn't all fit in one episode, hehe

The whole re-generation thing began originally due to the first doctor, William Hartnell, dieing on set and the crew quickly coming up with an idea as to how to keep the show going.

Oddly enough, before he died, he said this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7LS0kB780
Post edited June 02, 2013 by JinseiNGC224
avatar
Timelord1963: Just regarding the regeneration cap, it means nothing really! The Master survived (and still does) long after his last regeneration was used up and the Timelords even offered him a whole new regenerative cycle if he helped them in The Five Doctors. It's just an arbitrary limited number, something that the Timelords control, or rather controlled, but they are no more... Therefore infinite Doctors :) (almost sounds like a book!).

The Doctor also says something about having 500-odd regenerations in The Sarah Jane Adventures (The Death of the Doctor). So just Eleven is fine :D
avatar
JinseiNGC224: Point well taken!

Also, in "The Doctor's Wife" episode, where the Doctor, Amy, and Rory go into the dimension with the being that consumed time lords, the T.A.R.D.I.S. took human form and told the doctor about something regarding what happened with a doctor in his 30th regeneration or so (somewhere in the 30s). The Doctor himself said that's impossible,but the T.A.R.D.I.S. begged to differ :)
Oh god, I completely forgot about that. I need to re-watch that episode now. That episode had so many heart wrenching scenes, I mean through it all she was/is his best friend, and knows him more intimately than anyone else does. They always stated that the TARDIS was sentient even in the classic who days, so it was nice to have such a touching "meeting" between the Doctor and his oldest companion.
Wasn't this made abundantly apparent when they introduced John Hurt as the Doctor in the most cheesily X-Factor way they could?
avatar
bevinator: I really hope they don't do this. I'm perfectly okay with female Time Lords, in fact Romana I is one of my favorite companions. But having the Doctor regenerate as female would violate all sorts of precedents in addition to forcing the writing staff to make a whole new dynamic.
Eh, the only precedent being broken would be that the Doctor would be female -- which we know can happen ("The Doctor's Wife"). A white, male lead actor is really not anything new. Not that I have anything against any of the people who have played the Doctor, but I would like to see a change because I think it could be interesting. The writing staff being forced to write differently is both a cop out (because they have to write differently every episode, and every season, and every new Doctor), and just a revelation of the way that sexism ingrains society. A female Doctor would not necessarily have to be all that different from a male Doctor. The writing would not have to become super "feminine" or anything. It would not have to change entirely to fit the Doctor being female. In fact, in my mind, it would be better actually if the Doctor stayed very similar in personality (within the parameters of changed-due-to-regeneration) but was female, than if a female Doctor suddenly became super different, because she was a Time Lady.


avatar
Theta_Sigma: Oh god, I completely forgot about that. I need to re-watch that episode now. That episode had so many heart wrenching scenes, I mean through it all she was/is his best friend, and knows him more intimately than anyone else does. They always stated that the TARDIS was sentient even in the classic who days, so it was nice to have such a touching "meeting" between the Doctor and his oldest companion.
It and "Blink" are probably my two favorite episodes (for entirely different reasons).
Post edited June 02, 2013 by SheBear
avatar
Navagon: Wasn't this made abundantly apparent when they introduced John Hurt as the Doctor in the most cheesily X-Factor way they could?
It was quite hammy what they did

It almost made the whole last episode feel like a giant trailer for the 50th, instead of it's own unique story leading up to that.

And we can all guess, at the very least, how it's going to end, regardless of details....

The doctor lives and his adventures continue!
avatar
Timelord1963: Just regarding the regeneration cap, it means nothing really! The Master survived (and still does) long after his last regeneration was used up and the Timelords even offered him a whole new regenerative cycle if he helped them in The Five Doctors. It's just an arbitrary limited number, something that the Timelords control, or rather controlled, but they are no more... Therefore infinite Doctors :) (almost sounds like a book!).

The Doctor also says something about having 500-odd regenerations in The Sarah Jane Adventures (The Death of the Doctor). So just Eleven is fine :D
avatar
JinseiNGC224: Point well taken!

Also, in "The Doctor's Wife" episode, where the Doctor, Amy, and Rory go into the dimension with the being that consumed time lords, the T.A.R.D.I.S. took human form and told the doctor about something regarding what happened with a doctor in his 30th regeneration or so (somewhere in the 30s). The Doctor himself said that's impossible,but the T.A.R.D.I.S. begged to differ :)

I really enjoyed this episode. It just so happened Neil Gaiman wrote it, even though it had to be butchered/condensed a bit because he wrote so much awesome stuff, it couldn't all fit in one episode, hehe

The whole re-generation thing began originally due to the first doctor, William Hartnell, dieing on set and the crew quickly coming up with an idea as to how to keep the show going.

Oddly enough, before he died, he said this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7LS0kB780
She was talking about the interior of the TARDIS changing. She had archived 30something "desktops", but at that point he had only changed it about half a dozen times or so. :)
avatar
Navagon: Wasn't this made abundantly apparent when they introduced John Hurt as the Doctor in the most cheesily X-Factor way they could?
It really wasn't, but I've been cautioned against spoilers in previous posts, so I'll let you continue that line of thinking.
Finally!

I was rather disappointed when I read that he had signed on for yet another season, good to hear that there will be a change instead. Smith seems to be an alright guy, but he's just too limited as an actor. Plus, his accent makes him hard to understand for non-native speakers (though his pronunciation did improve over time). Here's hoping that they'll find a more versatile actor for the Doctor's next incarnation.
avatar
Navagon: Wasn't this made abundantly apparent when they introduced John Hurt as the Doctor in the most cheesily X-Factor way they could?
avatar
JinseiNGC224: It was quite hammy what they did

It almost made the whole last episode feel like a giant trailer for the 50th, instead of it's own unique story leading up to that.

And we can all guess, at the very least, how it's going to end, regardless of details....

The doctor lives and his adventures continue!
The whole ending was pretty bad. The impossible girl should have been left to her fate. The doctor just wandering on into his own time stream without consequence was poor as well. Also don't get why they revived some old footage of William Hartnell when they could have simply used another actor and called him the first incarnation. It all went downhill pretty sharpish.
avatar
JinseiNGC224: Point well taken!

Also, in "The Doctor's Wife" episode, where the Doctor, Amy, and Rory go into the dimension with the being that consumed time lords, the T.A.R.D.I.S. took human form and told the doctor about something regarding what happened with a doctor in his 30th regeneration or so (somewhere in the 30s). The Doctor himself said that's impossible,but the T.A.R.D.I.S. begged to differ :)

I really enjoyed this episode. It just so happened Neil Gaiman wrote it, even though it had to be butchered/condensed a bit because he wrote so much awesome stuff, it couldn't all fit in one episode, hehe

The whole re-generation thing began originally due to the first doctor, William Hartnell, dieing on set and the crew quickly coming up with an idea as to how to keep the show going.

Oddly enough, before he died, he said this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce7LS0kB780
avatar
DireRabbit: She was talking about the interior of the TARDIS changing. She had archived 30something "desktops", but at that point he had only changed it about half a dozen times or so. :)
You are indeed correct on the details. it's been a tad bit foggy since I haven't seen it in a while.

I should re-watch all of them before the 50th
avatar
JinseiNGC224: It was quite hammy what they did

It almost made the whole last episode feel like a giant trailer for the 50th, instead of it's own unique story leading up to that.

And we can all guess, at the very least, how it's going to end, regardless of details....

The doctor lives and his adventures continue!
avatar
Navagon: The whole ending was pretty bad. The impossible girl should have been left to her fate. The doctor just wandering on into his own time stream without consequence was poor as well. Also don't get why they revived some old footage of William Hartnell when they could have simply used another actor and called him the first incarnation. It all went downhill pretty sharpish.
This season is definitely lacking a little bit. It felt a little rough around the script(s) and budget seemed a bit poor. That said, it is what it is. Moffat said himself the 50th is supposed to have "blockbuster" quality special effects, so it goes without saying at the point that he purposely stretched the budget from season 7 to the 50th special. So if I blame anything, it's budget.
Post edited June 02, 2013 by JinseiNGC224
avatar
Navagon: Wasn't this made abundantly apparent when they introduced John Hurt as the Doctor in the most cheesily X-Factor way they could?
avatar
wpegg: It really wasn't, but I've been cautioned against spoilers in previous posts, so I'll let you continue that line of thinking.
The 11th Doctor said in this episode that the "John Hurt" Doctor was one of his previous incarnations. So unless someone expects the whole next season to be a massive flashback, stating that John Hurt is very unlikely to be the 12th doctor hardly constitutes a spoiler (imho). :)
Post edited June 02, 2013 by Psyringe
avatar
JinseiNGC224: This season is definitely lacking a little bit. It felt a little rough around the script(s) and budget seemed a bit poor. That said, it is what it is. Moffat said himself the 50th is supposed to have "blockbuster" quality special effects, so it goes without saying at the point that he purposely stretched the budget from season 7 to the 50th special. So if I blame anything, it's budget.
I can't see how any of the changes I would have made would have cost any more, personally. Unless the reason it seemed rushed and ill-conceived is entirely down to budgetary concerns. But surely actual production costs would far outweigh writing and brainstorming expenditure?
avatar
Psyringe: The 11th Doctor said in this episode that the "John Hurt" Doctor was one of his previous incarnations. So unless someone expects the whole next season to be a massive flashback, stating that John Hurt is very unlikely to be the 12th doctor hardly constitutes a spoiler (imho). :)
Given the nature of the series, how can you rule out an earlier incarnation? It's not like time has any real bearing and maybe it's their only remaining means of resurrecting the Doctor's most iconic enemies once more? With the Doctor walking into his own time stream like it was nothing who's to say? (unless you already know for sure?)
Post edited June 02, 2013 by Navagon