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Oh, and I'll throw a monkey wrench into this thread and complicate it even further.

Nazi symbolism also still ordains the higher offices and political structures in many places in Europe and America. When it comes to nazi symbolism, sometimes you have to look beyond just the swastika.

For example, the fasces, the bundle of rods and axe that began as an ancient Roman symbol for power and authority. It's where get the term 'fascist.' The fasces is displayed quite prominently in offices of power right here in my country of America, land of freedom and apple pie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces

So, if you want to really get into symbolism and censorship, you'd have to dig a lot deeper than just a few nazi zombies in Wolfenstein. To purge symbols of power and brutality from high places of exhibition, you'd have to pretty much remove every national symbol, icon, and mascot there is on planet Earth.

And don't even get me started on triangles and pyramids.
Come on, we all post some really foolish shit, time to time....let's not attack Protoss like angry vultures.

And If you lived in Germany for any decent of time, you'd understand how fucking bad the censorship there is. It's like HELL for gamers.
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Protoss: Germany is even worse than Iran, Russia and North Korea in terms of censorship.
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spindown: This is by far the most ignorant thing I've read all week, and it's already Thursday.
Rage blinds people. He obviously just found out how censored the new Wolfenstein is going to be and went into a rage. And his sentence is not entirely false. Germany is worse than Russia when it comes to censorship. But worse than North Korea = False. No country has it worse than North Korea. And I doubt Iran has censorship when it comes to violent video games.

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skynet464: Don't they ban all Nazi symbolism in Germany? So how would boycotting the game help?
German retail stores will lose money and they might pressure the government into NOT giving into their insane paranoia when it comes to violent media. But this would punish game publishers and game developers too, unfortunately.
Post edited April 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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Protoss: If you buy it, you support nazis who don't allow uncut games to run in Germany and Austria.
I agree that you have it bad over there with the censorship but the grass is not always greener on the other side. The USA is a lot more Nazi like than Germany. Not when it comes to censorship but when it comes to everything else, yes. And if you have money for a train ticket or money for gas then Germany is not too far from Denmark and The Netherlands...countries with stores that sell uncensored English versions of video games... ;) And If you have friends outside of Germany, I'm sure, they are able to gift you PC games... ;) I'm sure there is a way to fight back against this bullshit censorship without boycotting Wolfenstein: The New Order. ;)
Post edited April 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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Protoss: They essentially forbid you to fight against nazis in video games. How can they not be some themselves then?
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Psyringe: The laws that disallowed the use of certain Nazi imagery were first enacted by the Allies as a part of the denazification process. Revoking denazification laws was obviously not an option for a post-war Germany that was struggling to regain the world's trust, nor is it politically viable now when new Nazi groups are getting up to 30% of votes in certain parts of the country and right-wing terrorists could go around murdering foreigners for years.

You are calling the people Nazis that freed our country from a dictatorship that we could not shake off ourselves, great.

As someone who has a decidedly left-wing mindset and was active in Anti-Nazi groups, I am deeply ashamed that someone who claims to hold similar views presents such an asinine thread in this forum, with childishly clueless reasoning and without researching the facts.
Censorship is censorship... And all censorship is bad, no matter if it's Nazi censorship or anti Nazi censorship.
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AnimalMother117: I wasn't going to get the game because of:
a) DRM
b) I'd have to get it on my 360 otherwise, and I don't want that
c) Bethesda are not good people (fill that last bit in with any word you feel accurately reflects "not good people")

So... count me in?
The game kinda looked good for a few reasons, mostly the devs not liking modern shooter trends, but now I just don't want it that much anymore. Enemy Front look promising to anyone else?
I agree. Bethesda doesn't seem to be a group of good people but I admit, they are good at what they do...
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GastonArg: You really need to experiment in your own flesh what is to live in a country that have A REAL censorship or human rights violated, freedom of speech censoring etc, like in venezuela, cuba, north korea, china, argentina(in this particular moment) or pretty much all africa,middle east or south and central america in general (not all countries but most of them)
Then come into this thread again to complain about how is germany compared to those countries..
Germany does have real censorship. And I don't think in any of Protoss's posts, did he say, his human rights were violated or Germany has it bad, when it comes to human rights. He is only talking about censorship. I think you are overreacting.
Post edited April 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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Protoss: So why is nazi symbolism allowed in the U.S. then?
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Psyringe: Because the US never used those symbols in a dictatorship that started a world war and committed mass genocide, perhaps?

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Protoss: If it is part of the denazification process, then this means we must have lots of nazis still here, otherwise we wouldn't need those censorship laws anymore.
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Psyringe: That is the same childishly crude reasoning as in your first post. I'm sorry, but reality tends to be more complex than that.

I already explained why the laws are still in place, please read my previous post. If you disagree with them (which in itself would be nothing wrong), Urnoev just gave good advice on what to do.

However, based on past experience I believe that you are unlikely to listen to arguments that run counter to whichever simplistic reasoning you made up for the moment. I'm sorry, but I don't think it's worthwhile to try and argue with you over statements so incredibly silly and self-defeating. Therefore, I'll just repeat how deeply ashamed I am about the way how you are misrepresenting anti-Nazi workers as a bunch of crackpots with no solid reasoning.
No, instead the U.S. used other symbols to kill innocent civilians. The bombing of Dresden is just one example. There is also Hiroshima and Nagasaki but MERICA #1! How come those symbols aren't banned? Because winners get to keep their symbols and losers don't... A fact of life. :(
Post edited April 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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Urnoev: Well, this is weird. As a person living in Germany too, I also do not like the restrictions and censorship put in place by these various institutions here, although the mentioned game is of no interest for me.
If you want to change the situation, join a movement and become politicly active, do not only flame around here making stupid comparisons with Nazis.
LOL If Protoss created a movement against censorship, how many people would actually join this movement? 5? 10? 20? The government there and most Germans would just point and laugh at such a movement. And maybe TV people will troll them or interview them for a show so more people can point and laugh.
Post edited April 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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Psyringe: The laws that disallowed the use of certain Nazi imagery were first enacted by the Allies as a part of the denazification process. Revoking denazification laws was obviously not an option for a post-war Germany that was struggling to regain the world's trust, nor is it politically viable now when new Nazi groups are getting up to 30% of votes in certain parts of the country and right-wing terrorists could go around murdering foreigners for years.

You are calling the people Nazis that freed our country from a dictatorship that we could not shake off ourselves, great.

As someone who has a decidedly left-wing mindset and was active in Anti-Nazi groups, I am deeply ashamed that someone who claims to hold similar views presents such an asinine thread in this forum, with childishly clueless reasoning and without researching the facts.
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monkeydelarge: Censorship is censorship... And all censorship is bad, no matter if it's Nazi censorship or anti Nazi censorship.
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AnimalMother117: I wasn't going to get the game because of:
a) DRM
b) I'd have to get it on my 360 otherwise, and I don't want that
c) Bethesda are not good people (fill that last bit in with any word you feel accurately reflects "not good people")

So... count me in?
The game kinda looked good for a few reasons, mostly the devs not liking modern shooter trends, but now I just don't want it that much anymore. Enemy Front look promising to anyone else?
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monkeydelarge: I agree. Bethesda doesn't seem to be a group of good people but I admit, they are good at what they do...
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GastonArg: You really need to experiment in your own flesh what is to live in a country that have A REAL censorship or human rights violated, freedom of speech censoring etc, like in venezuela, cuba, north korea, china, argentina(in this particular moment) or pretty much all africa,middle east or south and central america in general (not all countries but most of them)
Then come into this thread again to complain about how is germany compared to those countries..
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monkeydelarge: Germany does have real censorship. And I don't think in any of Protoss's posts, did he say, his human rights were violated or Germany has it bad, when it comes to human rights. He is only talking about censorship. I think you are overreacting.
He did bring the topic to discussion

Well, human rights in general are worse there (labor camps, etc.) but in terms of censorship, they don't lead. I don't see North Korea on ANY list of countries that prohibit you to use software you bought anywhere else. I don't see North Korea on the top list of Youtube videos (funnily enough, that is corporate censorship because the German music right guys are too greedy and the government does not care because Germans don't need art).

You can't just talk about something and pretend you only talk about certain things, human rights, freedom of speech, censorship they all come together as one, if you talk about one you talk about all of them as a group.
how immature can you be Protoss ? if you can't draw the lines between videogames and real life please quit gaming before you do something stupid to someone by mixing up the two scenarios

what's next ? ban and don't buy any game that depicts wars ?
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liquidsnakehpks: how immature can you be Protoss ? if you can't draw the lines between videogames and real life please quit gaming before you do something stupid to someone by mixing up the two scenarios

what's next ? ban and don't buy any game that depicts wars ?
You forgot these. *monkeydelarge hands liquidsnakehpks, a torch and a pitch fork*. Now you are a proper member of the insanely angry mob.
Post edited April 18, 2014 by monkeydelarge
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liquidsnakehpks: how immature can you be Protoss ? if you can't draw the lines between videogames and real life please quit gaming before you do something stupid to someone by mixing up the two scenarios

what's next ? ban and don't buy any game that depicts wars ?
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monkeydelarge: You forgot these. *monkeydelarge hands liquidsnakehpks, a torch and a pitch fork*. Now you are a proper member of the insanely angry mob.
we need more heavy fire power

*types in
gunsgunsguns
Anyone else find it refreshing to see that it's single player only? I think it's nice to see a single player only FPS from a big name publisher, and probably a game with a decent sized budget at that. I doubt that I'll go out and pay release day price for it, but still...

Edit: And why in the hell did I just post in this thread? Ignore my post, I will not return here. :P
Post edited April 18, 2014 by JohnnyDollar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyIQHCOCtGk
low rated
Example: http://puu.sh/8drLe.PNG

I informed the ECC about that practice.

Please also do, so maybe they work faster if more people complain!
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/index_en.htm

Also thanks for showing me that GOG users mostly don't give feces about region locks! That isn't the GOG it was when I came here anymore!
Post edited April 18, 2014 by Protoss
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Protoss: Example: http://puu.sh/8drLe.PNG

I informed the ECC about that practice.

Please also do, so maybe they work faster if more people complain!
http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/ecc/index_en.htm

Also thanks for showing me that GOG users mostly don't give feces about region locks! That isn't the GOG it was when I came here anymore!
Well comparing video game censorship to mass murdering war criminals isn't the brightest idea to be had recently.
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Protoss: Germany is even worse than Iran, Russia and North Korea in terms of censorship.
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xa_chan: You obviously don't know what you're saying. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Or, you know, try to go live in North Korea, just to see.
Putin to Snowden, via hotline: "We don't spy on our citizens, we're nice!"
Next headline: "Schools to watch children's social network profiles (to prevent terrorist activity)."

Putin, via hotline: "The political movement backer by conservative ideology, which I have discussed earlier, is on the rise in Europe [references neo-Nazis], and our policies in Russia follow the same trend."

Law: citizens' patrols cannot be politically or religiously affiliated; political or religious activity within citizens' patrols is prohibited.
Actual citizens' patrols: certified Russian Orthodox neo-Nazis.