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Yep. It's like one of those extremist sites (no matter which flavour) which you read and think: I know they mean all of this seriously - but it's still bullshit.
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Emob78: Because here in America we have something called FREEDOM. Freedom of speech isn't just the right to say things that others agree with, it's also the right to say things that other DON'T agree with. This concept has sadly become antithetical to those in many other places around the world.
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Fenixp: Oh sure, try to hang a couple of swasticas around your house and start publically hailing, see how far your freedom takes you :-P Or, for that matter, start joking about bombs at airports...
On the state of freedom in the world today, you are absolutely correct. The assumption that you should be limited in that freedom because others might protest you or hate you or threaten you is not. Threats or acts of violence over private or public displays of opinion is a little... well, you know... Nazi-like. Again, we should be praising good IDEAS and defending everyone's liberty, not getting into factional debates over whether the Soviets or Nazis had better looking uniforms.
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Psyringe: You are calling the people Nazis that freed our country from a dictatorship that we could not shake off ourselves, great.
It's a common political ploy in the United States to call your opponents Nazis or associate them with a popular Nazi leaders. I die on the inside every time it happens, it really does make me sick.

In a sense, it's become a bit of a logical fallacy. If you can't win an argument on logic alone, find some correlation to Nazi leaders or policies and throw it out there, it'll rile up a pretty good sized group of people and a few hours later, you'll find your opponent's picture with a Hitler mustache somewhere.

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Psyringe: As someone who has a decidedly left-wing mindset and was active in Anti-Nazi groups, I am deeply ashamed that someone who claims to hold similar views presents such an asinine thread in this forum, with childishly clueless reasoning and without researching the facts.
I've always been curious what modern day Germans thought about the denazification, especially in this era. I'd be interested to hear how the laws are viewed by the German population (censorship arguments aside).

It seems to me, not being German, that the likelihood of the Nazi party rising to power again, in one form or another, would be highly unlikely. Is that inaccurate?
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Psyringe:
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Shinook: It's a common political ploy in the United States to call your opponents Nazis or associate them with a popular Nazi leaders. I die on the inside every time it happens, it really does make me sick.

In a sense, it's become a bit of a logical fallacy. If you can't win an argument on logic alone, find some correlation to Nazi leaders or policies and throw it out there, it'll rile up a pretty good sized group of people and a few hours later, you'll find your opponent's picture with a Hitler mustache somewhere.

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Psyringe:
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Shinook:
My biggest problem with it (and this may come off as a bit flippant from myself) is that we have actual Neo-Nazi groups here and when you see one coming and try to warn people they think you are just bitching about someone you disagree with about healthcare or traffic laws and thus ignore you.
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Psyringe: You are calling the people Nazis that freed our country from a dictatorship that we could not shake off ourselves, great.
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Shinook: It's a common political ploy in the United States to call your opponents Nazis or associate them with a popular Nazi leaders. I die on the inside every time it happens, it really does make me sick.

In a sense, it's become a bit of a logical fallacy. If you can't win an argument on logic alone, find some correlation to Nazi leaders or policies and throw it out there, it'll rile up a pretty good sized group of people and a few hours later, you'll find your opponent's picture with a Hitler mustache somewhere.
someone should write a law about that... I dont know, something in the terms of the Not-Good Win Law? as it is never a good way to win? or something like that
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Shinook: It's a common political ploy in the United States to call your opponents Nazis or associate them with a popular Nazi leaders. I die on the inside every time it happens, it really does make me sick.
In German politics, there's more or less a consensus that the Nazi crimes were so uniquely atrocious that comparisons to contemporary people or events are not appropriate. They do happen from time to time, but they usually cause an outcry from the political opponents of whoever makes them, and there's a high risk that that person's reputation will be damaged.

In private, people are naturally more lenient with comparisons than in public.

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Shinook: I've always been curious what modern day Germans thought about the denazification, especially in this era. I'd be interested to hear how the laws are viewed by the German population (censorship arguments aside).
Most Germans probably only have vague knowledge about the denazification process, too vague to have opinions about its details. The majority of Germans agree that the allies did free Germany from a dictatorship that should never have happened in the first place, so the general opinion about the denazification will probably be positive, though there is also skepticism about how successful it actually was (even nowadays we sometimes get news about someone's hidden Nazi past).

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Shinook: It seems to me, not being German, that the likelihood of the Nazi party rising to power again, in one form or another, would be highly unlikely. Is that inaccurate?
It's unlikely as long as the political and economical situation is stable, but I wouldn't take that for granted. The Nazis rose to power in the 30s because the country was hit hard by the world-wide economic crisis, the politicians were deadlocked and separated into the extreme left and the extreme right, who were unable to even talk to each other, and Nazi rhetorics offered the people a scapegoat and seemingly a way out ("Our glorious country has been held down by the Versailles contract war reparations, and by a worldwide Jewish conspiracy, we will remove these shackles and return our country to greatness."). While this won't repeat itself in every detail, I believe we have to be wary especially in times of economical crises.

There are neo-nazi (or at least extreme right-wing) parties in Germany who get around 5% of votes in elections - sometimes more, sometimes less. In some regional administartions they got up to 10% of votes, but usually they prove themselves as so inept and self-destructive that they lose most of their voter base in the next election. There are, however, areas in Germany where the potential of extreme right-wing voters is 30% or more, and where neo-nazi parties are extremely active with their youth organizations. There is also a nazi underground which, for whichever reason, managed to operate largely undisturbed from the state security departments that are supposed to have an eye on such developments, and there was a neo-nazi terror cell who was active for years, killing foreigners throughout the country, without the police even noticing them (the killings were sometimes attributed to inter-familial conflicts, or to conflicts inside the foreign communities).

I agree that it's unlikely to see a Nazi or Nazi-like party rise to power again in Germany anytime soon, but I am concerned about what may happen when the country gets hit by a severe economical/political crisis again, especially 20 years down the road, when we will have whole families consisting of people to whom the neo-nazi youth organizations were the ones who cared about them, and organized events and vacations for them, whereas other parties seemed to have abandoned the area they lived in. I believe that a charismatic, politically able leader in this part of the political spectrum would be able to garner about 10-15% of votes, possibly more in the future - we are kind of blessed that right-wing leaders in the past few decades have been so inept.
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Shinook: It seems to me, not being German, that the likelihood of the Nazi party rising to power again, in one form or another, would be highly unlikely. Is that inaccurate?
If there was any nazi party that would grab people where you can grab them, it would take maybe eight to twelve years for them to gain control. That's about the time it took for the NSDAP as well, and I doubt much has changed today. People are still the same, no law in the world can change that. Give them a Paul Schaefer, a Charles Manson, an Adolf Hitler, and they will follow him into their fall. Give them a Pol Pot, a Mao, a Stalin, and he will succeed, no matter what so-called experts tell you today.

A charismatic criminal will always be able to bewitch the masses. Tell them everyone gets work, tell them they don't need to pay GEZ anymore, tell them you can secure their pension, tell them you have a radical but functional plan to save the economy. They will follow. They are fed up with our leaders, they just don't know whom to elect.

If the Pirate Party Germany wouldn't be a bunch of failures that strove away from the international Pirate Party, they could have got far over 10 percent even without having any real program, other than being radically for freedom and democracy and against any form of censorship. That is, of course they are the exact opposite of nazis, but just to show you how much fed up our people are. The right-populist party Alternative für Deutschland got five percent after only six months.

There is no law that can stop someone who is charismatic and intelligent from getting such a majority as to being able to change all laws at will (that is, 75 percent).

It is only luck that we had only two dictatures in the past 100 years.
Post edited April 21, 2014 by Protoss
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Shinook: It seems to me, not being German, that the likelihood of the Nazi party rising to power again, in one form or another, would be highly unlikely. Is that inaccurate?
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Protoss: If there was any nazi party that would grab people where you can grab them, it would take maybe eight to twelve years for them to gain control. That's about the time it took for the NSDAP as well, and I doubt much has changed today. People are still the same, no law in the world can change that. Give them a Paul Schaefer, a Charles Manson, an Adolf Hitler, and they will follow him into their fall. Give them a Pol Pot, a Mao, a Stalin, and he will succeed, no matter what so-called experts tell you today.

A charismatic criminal will always be able to bewitch the masses. Tell them everyone gets work, tell them they don't need to pay GEZ anymore, tell them you can secure their pension, tell them you have a radical but functional plan to save the economy. They will follow. They are fed up with our leaders, they just don't know whom to elect.

If the Pirate Party Germany wouldn't be a bunch of failures that strove away from the international Pirate Party, they could have got far over 10 percent even without having any real program, other than being radically for freedom and democracy and against any form of censorship. That is, of course they are the exact opposite of nazis, but just to show you how much fed up our people are. The right-populist party Alternative für Deutschland got five percent after only six months.

There is no law that can stop someone who is charismatic and intelligent from getting such a majority as to being able to change all laws at will (that is, 75 percent).

It is only luck that we had only two dictatures in the past 100 years.
Never never never ever watch the movie, Iron Sky... You won't want to leave your bedroom afterwards.
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monkeydelarge: Never never never ever watch the movie, Iron Sky... You won't want to leave your bedroom afterwards.
Great movie, watched it 2-3 times. Very ironical and great performance from Udo Kier.

BTW: I will buy Wolfenstein: TNO and hopefully will get it uncensored.
wasn't planning on buying it,

IMO they have gone to the well too many times on this one, and for most 'war/military' shooters.
Post edited April 22, 2014 by Xoanon
but the original Wolfenstein 3D is still a blast to play
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Xoanon: wasn't planning on buying it,

IMO they have gone to the well too many times on this one, and for most 'war/military' shooters.
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l0rdtr3k: but the original Wolfenstein 3D is still a blast to play
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Xoanon: wasn't planning on buying it,

IMO they have gone to the well too many times on this one, and for most 'war/military' shooters.
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l0rdtr3k:
So is the original original Woflenstein.....kind of. :P