Yes that's true fair enough. I meant to write but how many of those DRM-free titles are AAA? I don't want the debate to go from who decision was it to how many AAA titles are released DRM-free. I'm just curious, because my understanding was that DRM is far more prevalent if not pervasive on AAA titles and that offering a AAA title DRM-free at all was a major deal.

As I noted before it still doesn't explain the juxtaposition between offering the game DRM-free with extras and offering a nice retail version, but also wanting to put DRM on it ... The best, simplest explanation is still that the publisher wanted it.

It could be a lot of reasons really. Atari published the first game, and for all we know, the publisher may be fully invested in the series and thus, have continuing distribution rights from the first game. It could very well be they are still bound to them from the first game, and have little choice legally to shop around publisher wise.

In general, I am surprised other people are surprised. I thought it was fairly understood that the GOG version was the only DRM free version available. I think this is the best they could do, and personally I am rather satisfied. It could have been much worse. It could have required Steam, which in my opinion is far more draconian, or used TAGES or Starforce. Unlimited activation SecuROM is fairly tame, and similar to the first game, I imagine they will patch it out eventually.

I don't think anyone expected the retail release to be DRM FREE. It's the nature of the DRM that's disappointing: The fact that they're not even selling the complete product on the DVD, and that you must download 50 MB or so when you install the game. Well... if the DRM is their choice (which I'm pretty confident it is), then obviously they'll use it in their own region as well. That makes perfect sense.

Do you actually think the other three publishers got together to decide that they wanted CD Projekt to use this specific DRM-form worldwide? That's highly unlikely.

And who's got the most to lose on the game being pirated, anyway? The companies who are distributing it as one of many, many games from various devs? Or the one who actually funded the (probably quite expensive) development in the first place, and only have this one internally developed game for release this year?

Then why would CDP offer it on GOG DRM-free? If CDP were concerned over piracy and wanted to use DRM to combat it then that action doesn't make sense. It makes much more sense to be the publishers because their distribution partners all have a proven track record of wanting DRM. No cabal is necessary. One or more said it had to have DRM and so there is a DRM solution on it. That is so much more likely than CDP being at odds not only with their own stated goals, but with their own actions! They've released it on a DRM-free channel!

It's just coincidence that their major distribution partners all release DRM'ed titles? It's just coincidence that Atari likes DRM and also released the first Witcher game? I'm sorry the coincidences and assumptions simply pile up under your argument. CDP would have to be a major-lly dysfunctional company at odds with itself, its own policies & actions, and yet conveniently in line with the philosophy of its publishing partners. Possible, but do you really think that is more likely than simply Atari et al who release titles with DRM are releasing the retail version with DRM and that there is one retail version? The latter is simple and straightforward almost to the point of tautology.

Like others have mentioned it will probably be patched out like it was on the first game. Besides SecuROM is not as bad as most DRM - Starforce, Tages, etc ...

As for the 50MB, what exactly is it that is in that 50MB missing from the retail disk? I thought it was just more bonus material? If it's free bonus stuff, then while not ideal it's hardly a crime against humanity; if it is necessary stuff, then yes I agree that does suck.

True enough. So irritating that Atari do not understand their DRM stops no piracy what-so-ever.

I'm not that surprised, I assumed it would have some kind of DRM on the disc. Still, it's disappointing.

They said at the conference it was necessary to download it. So it's DRM.

In fact, it is probably the only DRM that work towards its intended purpose. And that purpose is simple: To prevent anyone from pirating the game before it is released.

Pirate groups often have access to people in the distribution and retail business. So they will be able to get access to early copies of games. But in the case of The Witcher; well, what they get is incomplete. The 50 MB that is missing is likely executable and other crucial files. So they can't crack the game ahead of the release date, because there is nothing for them to crack.

This also explains why CD Projekt can, at the same time, offer the game DRM-free from GOG. Because they know, like we do, that DRM won't help once the game is in circulation. The game will be cracked in a hurry and released on torrent sites, regardless of the DRM. And they also know that once the game is on sale, and easy to obtain by legal means, a lot of people who would otherwise pirate it just to get it early are just going to buy it instead.

So they do everything they can to make sure that the game is not going to be available on torrent sites before the release, instead of trying (and failing) to keep the game from ever being cracked.

Which is understandable. But as a customer of the disc-based version, I obviously do not like it. Because the day the DRM-servers stop working, I will no longer be able to install it. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if I'll experience server troubles on the release day, since everyone who buys it (including GOG-customers, BTW) has to download a bunch of files for it to play.

Here, neil gaiman explains piracy in a interesting way.

http://youtu.be/0Qkyt1wXNlI







.

Well as a consolation you can at least have good hope that, given their track record, CDP will patch the DRM sooner or later, which is more than what you can expect from most other DRM using publisher.

When you're talking about a physical good like a book, the "piracy promotion" method is very effective because reading something online is not the same as curling up on your couch with a good book. When you are talking a non-physical good like a video game, there is no real incentive to then buy the game if you already have everything that you would get by buying, but for free.

Spot on. You can go and borrow a book from your local library any time you like but it's not the same as owning one.

Personally I think having 2 versions of the game each with and without DRM can be a good idea. I'd keep track of how well each sells, and if, hopefully, the drm-free version (gog) sells best. Release that little tidbit to the rest of the industry and DEMAND that they answer the question "Still think DRM is a good idea?"

..but hey, thats just one of the things I'd end up doing in my little world that exists in my mind :)

Your being too literal. I was referring to his attitude towards piracy, paticullary when he says that anyone who pirates your stuff wouldnt have ever bought it to begin with. I linked it because he has a different outlook on it than most.

And curling up on your couch with a good book? Your pulling up that cliched image to say everyone who reads only does so with a cup of cocoa, a blanket, on their couch, infront of a fire, with their dog napping at their feet while they are lost in the magic that is a book? You know a kindle is? Know what a htpc is? Know what a laptop is? Know what internet tv is? Know what a smart phone is? Know what a netbook is? There are dozens of ways to read a book that you get from online and they dont all fit into a narrow margain your conjuring up so you sound right. Ive read books at my pc, Ive also read text on website for hours on end, how is that differrent than reading text in a book? Just like your sitting here reading these forums and other websites, its the same thing as reading a book.

And why is there a incentive to play a game again after you beat it? Oh yeah, because people will play it again if they like it. People read books multiple times and people play games multiple times and people watch movies multiple times. Just to say "Well once you beat the game you have no incentive to buy it". Well if you get a book free online where is the incentive to buy it? Your arguing against one medium but arguing for another medium exactly like it, that makes no sense and all your doing is making points that prove your wrong but comparing books to games because they are very much alike in terms of what they are and them being stolen. Thats like making a argument for a hamburger but using a ham sandwhich to support your claims against the burger.

And your still wrong. I have pirated movies and games and then bought them. Your just throwing out what sounds good but you dont know the habits or mentality of everyone.
I pirated off a torrent site movies like taint, black dynamite and le cercle rouge. I stole them and enjoyed them so much I bought the dvds of them, hell le cercle rouge I paid extra and got the criterion collection of. And Ive done it with video games also, I downloaded a game beat it and enjoyed it so I bought it and played it more, I downloaded gray matter and necronomicon and I liked them so I bought them.

Ill consider this conversation closed though because your one of those people that will maintain this very small and tight narrow margain in order to ignore everything else so you can be correct.

I'm pretty pissed off about this DRm as well.

SecuROM on-line activation with a 50MB DL to complete the game install. Yeah, you know what? People got fucked by that on BioShock. No thanks. Anyone want to bet on how long before the authentication servers are hammered so hard that people can't play their legally purchased retail copies on release day?

Ostensibly it's to prevent pirates from playing the game before the release date. Fine. Given that there's a DRM-free digital version available on Day 1 - and we all know the GOG version is going to show up on pirate sites within minutes of the DL being unlocked - then I'd expect to see a Day 1 patch to get rid of the DRM. Not going to happen though, is it?

Bad enough that there's apparently no retailer in Canada that's going to carry the Collector's Edition - which I was quite willing to spend $130 on for the physical goodies - but now they're saddling it with SecuROM, on-line activation, and a 5 machine limit (and it's pretty damned disingenuous to say there are no install limits and no no machine limits and then turn around and say you can play on 'up to' 5 machines at once. That equation doesn't add up).

Yeah, well, I won't be spending $130 bucks then. Yay me. Sure, I'll buy the GOG version to support the whole DRM free ideal and because I want to play the game. But I'm still fucking pissed off.

Pretty disappointed in CDProjekt over this, though. People can toss out all the excuses they want about it being the publisher's fault but the bottom line is CDP are the ones spouting about giving the customer more value, screw the pirates, and hating DRM. This move just makes that seem like so much hot air.

Okay, someone takes all of this way too seriously (even more seriously than me, which is saying a lot).

Of course there are plenty of way to consume media (I have multiple computers in my house, including two hooked up to TVs that I get all my television on, no cable/satellite for me). Of course there are people who still do the honorable thing with pirated content. And lastly, of course not everyone curls up with a book on their couch. In your own words "your [sic] being too literal". My point was, even though there are multiple ways to consume media these days, with physical goods, even ones that also have a digital outlet, there is still an existing, tangible incentive to not pirate. Software has never had that and never will, beyond the consciences of those doing the pirating. And honestly, I do disagree with Gaiman's sentiment to a degree. Yes, SOME of the people who pirate were never going to buy your stuff in the first place (KingofGNG comes to mind), but not all of them.