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rtcvb32: Screw DX12, i don't want it. I was happy with DX9 which let me play Morrowind, and i've been happy with it since. Actually i'd prefer things pushed more for openGL but what can you do?
You could stick with a PC and an OS that's enough to play Morrowind oO

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rtcvb32: Huhh?? If i understand it right, every new computer that's sold at say NewEgg and at Walmart and Office Depot, usually come with windows, which means have paid/bundled licenses on them, meaning Microsoft would still get sales, just not boxed copies from the store...
I never said Microsoft doesn't sell any OSes anymore. They're just not selling Windows 7 anymore. The PCs you find in stores come with Windows 8.1 and a huge "FREE WINDOWS 10 UPGRADE!!!" sticker.

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agogfan: I agree that MS is no longer selling Windows 7 anymore, but did Microsoft stop selling Windows 7 because people stopped buying it, or did people stop buying it because Microsoft stopped selling it.

The former is Microsoft adapting to the market. The latter is forcing the market to adapt to Microsoft.
Microsoft stopped selling Windows 7 because we live in a fast developing world. It's easier to create a new OS than to patch your old OS for new standards and to deal with angry cutomers because you broke compatibility with something.

If Microsoft would still sell "what costumers want", we'd still be creating boot disks, fix HDD errors with CHKDSK and switch between Windows 3.1's GUI and pure DOS whenever we need to do more advanced stuff. It doesn't mean that Windows 10 is a useless POS just because it comes with a Windows Store and requires "OH MY GOD NSA IS SPYING ON ME ALL THE TIME" nerdrage chipsets.
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Shadowstalker16: Just another of Intel's anticonsumer practices. They have the objectively better product, but I'll never buy from them because of shit like this. Seriously, they built hardware level barriers into processors that make them un-patchable on older OSes? If open source OS folks aren't alarmed at this, they should be. Why should the hardware manufacturer have any control on what OS you use? This kind of cartel behavior needs to stop.
Skylate cannot be called "better product", those processors crash in heavy work load environments.

http://www.techspot.com/news/63430-complex-workload-bug-found-crash-intel-skylake-cpus.html
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rtcvb32: Huhh?? If i understand it right, every new computer that's sold at say NewEgg and at Walmart and Office Depot, usually come with windows, which means have paid/bundled licenses on them, meaning Microsoft would still get sales, just not boxed copies from the store...
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real.geizterfahr: I never said Microsoft doesn't sell any OSes anymore. They're just not selling Windows 7 anymore. The PCs you find in stores come with Windows 8.1 and a huge "FREE WINDOWS 10 UPGRADE!!!" sticker.
Not sure who "they" is, but I just ordered a new PC for someone else a few months back, and it came with a perfectly good and operational copy of Windows 7 and no funny Windows 10 business in, on, or with it, in any shape or form.
After hearing this news, the man boots up his Windows 98 and opens his legacy software to make sure that Microsoft isn't forcing an upgrade that will render everything incompatible. He has the pro versions of everything and all of his favorite settings are there. He doesn't pay heed that free programs today have significantly more features and support. Move to Linux? He scoffs at the notion.

Do not upset the man, for the man is content and strokes his CRT monitor sensually every day. He is safe from Microsoft, he is safe from the world.
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wpegg: Sense of duty will not work on a company, and they all become evil at a certain size. Competition keeps them good.
Strict laws keep them good, we've already seen many times that competition alone doesn't do s**t.
Post edited January 17, 2016 by phaolo
To be honest: Windows 10 looks worse than Windows 7.
Part of the problem with Windows 10 is it breaks things. Games that weren't released digitally like Dreamworks Kung Fu Panda won't work, for example. (I kind of wish GOG would be able to add it to their catalog). There are also some games that have broken after various updates like Alone in the Dark the New Nightmare. Since Windows 10 tries to force updates on people, people should be hoping the updates are improving the existing code without undermining it for existing software. Besides, if it was legal to break stuff, taking a sledgehammer and using it vandalize public property like a park would be legal.
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Trilarion: To be honest: Windows 10 looks worse than Windows 7.
I was uneasy about Windows 10 from the start to tell the truth. Right now, I'm running 8.1 with Classic Shell to fix the start menu. It works good, but you need to avoid certain updates to keep it that way as they can break games or cause trouble with the OS.
Post edited January 17, 2016 by NessAndSonic
low rated
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Shadowstalker16: Just another of Intel's anticonsumer practices.
AMD are on this as well. There goes your shit.
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real.geizterfahr: I never said Microsoft doesn't sell any OSes anymore. They're just not selling Windows 7 anymore. The PCs you find in stores come with Windows 8.1 and a huge "FREE WINDOWS 10 UPGRADE!!!" sticker.
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CharlesGrey: Not sure who "they" is, but I just ordered a new PC for someone else a few months back, and it came with a perfectly good and operational copy of Windows 7 and no funny Windows 10 business in, on, or with it, in any shape or form.
Doesn't change the fact that Microsoft doesn't sell Windows 7 anymore. You can still buy Windows XP from some dealers if you want.
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snowkatt: from the article

" Skylake users given 18 months to upgrade to Windows 10
And next generation processors, including Intel's Kaby Lake, won't be supported in old Windows
If you own a system with an Intel 6th generation Core processor—more memorably known as Skylake—and run Windows 7 or Windows 8.1, you'll have to think about upgrading to Windows 10 within the next 18 months. Microsoft announced today that after July 17, 2017, only the "most critical" security fixes will be released for those platforms and those fixes will only be made available if they don't "risk the reliability or compatibility" of Windows 7 and 8.1 on other (non-Skylake) systems.

The full range of compatibility and security fixes will be published for non-Skylake machines for Windows 7 until January 14 2020, and for Windows 8.1 until January 10 2023.."

well thats nice
you can read the rest here http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/01/skylake-users-given-18-months-to-upgrade-to-windows-10/

i cant help but feel that this is a huge middle finger to anybody who doesnt want to upgrade to windows 10
People complain a lot about upgrading Windows... to the point where it gets annoying.

I get the complaining when there's nothing you can do about it, but there is so you can either be a complainer or an enacter of positive change in your life.

Unless you're very reliant on Photoshop, iTunes or playing mostly of AAA games, there is a free open source alternative out there that now works on the vast majority of hardware and starts with an L (with many distro alternatives).

If you're too stuck to jump ship, then be a good boy, give Microsoft some money when they ask for it, be grateful for whatever change they deem appropriate for you and don't complain so much about it.

PS: I realise the poster is just copy-pasting an article. Mostly targeting Windows users who complain a lot about Microsoft's heavy handedness. Unless you're grandma and learning something new in technology takes your forever, you'll get zero sympathy from me. You have a choice. You chose this. Now, stop complaining.
Post edited January 17, 2016 by Magnitus
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Gede: Here is something I don't understand: if Intel won't support Windows 7 after a certain date, wouldn't that create a market opportunity for AMD? Why are they following Intel in a similar time frame? Did the three companies have a meeting to discuss this matter or something?
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PookaMustard: The question here is why support legacy software, when the new one is going to be updated to take more advantage of newer hardware? You just can't ask for new blazing fast hardware, and then ask for it to support the not on sale Windows 7, when Windows 10 will probably make better use of the hardware.
The people complaining makes me believe there is a market for hardware that supports the older versions of Windows. We'll see if that maintains in 18 months, but it seems people are not eager to change their OS.

Isn't that like asking people "why to you continue to play Fallout 2 when Fallout 3 is out and is in 3D?" People don't always want or need the new features. I just want a new laptop to replace my old one that broke. I liked my old laptop! Why do I have to now choose between Windows 7 and having WiFi?

Also, compatibility with old software is very important. They even eave us a legacy for decades.

You can say "that is software, and it is different!". Well, CPUs made in 2016 still run 16-bit code, don't they? That is not an "one-time effort" like writing drivers. That costs them silicone in each processor they make.
We rarely see revolutionary new hardware. That means that drivers do not have to be written from scratch.

It was a business decision. We don't know what went into it, but we are not very pleased about it. Me? I'm used to doing research before investing money into hardware and not having shinny new things.
Stop complaining about Microsoft already, people. Just use GNU/Linux and you're good.
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Klumpen0815: Stop complaining about Microsoft already, people. Just use GNU/Linux and you're good.
Not every game works with it. I can't seem to install Tony Hawk's Underground 2 under it. Wine's also a space waster unless there is a way to have the Wine software in a place where all users can use it. I'm not sure if there is. I'm also unsure if Simon the Sorcerer 3D will work with it given how picky it is about launching behaviors. I tried to launch from Steam, but it wouldn't work.
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Klumpen0815: Stop complaining about Microsoft already, people. Just use GNU/Linux and you're good.
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NessAndSonic: Not every game works with it. I can't seem to install Tony Hawk's Underground 2 under it. Wine's also a space waster unless there is a way to have the Wine software in a place where all users can use it. I'm not sure if there is. I'm also unsure if Simon the Sorcerer 3D will work with it given how picky it is about launching behaviors. I tried to launch from Steam, but it wouldn't work.
Haven't ditched Windows completely either. I still need it for iTunes and to play some Windows-only games (which will likely remain the case until a critical mass of Windowers can be convinced to jump ship).

However, I use Linux for everything else, so my degree of reliance on Microsoft is greatly reduced.

Windows X? Are the installers and launch icons for iTunes and some games easy to find? Yes? Great! This version of Windows totally fulfill my needs! Windows X could be a barren mostly unsuable box with the ability to easily install and launch some select programs and I'd be satisfied with it.

Can't run Windows X on that computer? Ah, guess I won't be able to use it for iTunes and Windows-only games. Thankfully, everything else will still run on it!
Post edited January 17, 2016 by Magnitus
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Gede: The people complaining makes me believe there is a market for hardware that supports the older versions of Windows. We'll see if that maintains in 18 months, but it seems people are not eager to change their OS.
There might be a market, but at the same time this market is demanding newer hardware and newer hardware, while still being held back by their outdated software. At some point, hardware developers have to jump to the newer hardware that utilizes updated software in order to satisfy these demands.
Isn't that like asking people "why to you continue to play Fallout 2 when Fallout 3 is out and is in 3D?" People don't always want or need the new features. I just want a new laptop to replace my old one that broke. I liked my old laptop! Why do I have to now choose between Windows 7 and having WiFi?
You're comparing with games, which is a bad analogy to say for me. But we'll suppose that games stop being on sale after a period of time for the time being. You can receive all the updates and all the [s]buginess[/s] greatness of Fallout 3, but if you want Fallout 2, you have to find somewhere to buy it, and even then you're cut from support because you're using an outdated OS. You could surely enough download and install Windows 2000 today on your high end PC, however, good luck finding drivers to use it everyday for your modern hardware. Not to mention that pre-built PCs of many kinds already come with the latest software which is probably how any Windows OS gets a bigger market share over time, diminishing the market share of those outdated OSes.
You can say "that is software, and it is different!". Well, CPUs made in 2016 still run 16-bit code, don't they? That is not an "one-time effort" like writing drivers. That costs them silicone in each processor they make.
We rarely see revolutionary new hardware. That means that drivers do not have to be written from scratch.
I don't really know of that implication. But who knows if this time, the hardware will be revolutionary, and thus, security updates for Windows 7 and 8.1 on these systems should be halted to not break them?
It was a business decision. We don't know what went into it, but we are not very pleased about it. Me? I'm used to doing research before investing money into hardware and not having shinny new things.
I feel its not. If it were a business decision, more processor lines would be affected, and even then the line that got discounted won't even receive the occasional most critical update, as the text implies. But whether its actually a business decision or a technical decision is up to debate...